View Full Version : 360 With A Glide?
ANY HOT STREET RACERS HAVING ANY LUCK WITH A 360 CUI MOTOR WITH A POWERGLIDE? THANKS TIM
JRSRacing
11-22-2002, 06:47 AM
Tim,
Last year saw most 360's running with a 5-spd behind them. However, with the 50 lb diet the 360's will be undergoing this year, the 'Glide may be the hot ticket. We won't know until the 1st race of the year if anyone tries that combination. You may want to talk to Scott Budisalich (www.budisalichracing.com). He had Bennett build him a 360 HS combo last year and I think he put a PG behind it. I think the best they got out of that was 9.45's. I'm not sure how much they tuned on that combination before switching to the 400.
Sometimes you want to be creative by trying something different. We tried that last year with the 400 and Jerico but couldn't get the repeatability that class competition requires. It was faster than our PG but unpredicatble. You may find that "imitation is the highest form of flattery" and also the cheapest and quickest way to become competitive in this class.:) Hope this helps! Good luck with your build-up. Can't wait to meet you!
JACK,RICK, AND SHANE THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY.WE ARE TRYING SOMETHING DIFFERENT HERE AND SO FAR THE RESULTS ARE DECENT, WE JUST CANT GET THE CAR TO LEAVE HARD LIKE THE OTHER GLIDES.WERE TRYING CONVERTERS BUT ITS GETTING EXPENSIVE DONT KNOW IF WE SHOULD KEEP AT IT OR PUT THE 5-SPEED IN IT.THANKS TIM @ MUSTANG SPECIALTIES
JRSRacing
11-22-2002, 08:40 AM
MORE and MORE RPMS!:D
RPM NOT A PROBLEM GETTING THE CONVERTER TO LOCK UP THATS MY PROBLEM. TIM
JRSRacing
11-22-2002, 01:49 PM
Join the crowd! Ha! Other than financing our operation and getting the most HP/$; our biggest challenge was finding a converter that works well for many different track conditions. I'm sure you've heard of some teams having 4 converters. We only have two and really only use 1 at this point. We'll see if its even applicable with the new mill Jon is building.:confused: The more we test the more we learn (or in some cases the more we confuse ourselves or generate more questions! Ha!). Take care!
JRS RACING, DID YOU GUYS DYNO YOUR OLD ENGINE? I HAVE HAD MORE CONSISTENT PASSES WITH MY JERICO COMBONATION THAN WITH THIS POWERGLIDE. BUT THE WEIGHT PENALTIES MIGHT NOT BE WORTH IT,OR MAYBE THEY WILL WITH THIS SMALL MOTOR.I WAS ALSO CONSIDERING A TURBO 400 WITH A LITTLE MORE GEAR RATIO IN IT. DO YOU GUYS RUN A 1.76 FIRST GEAR IN YOUR GLIDE? IF I CAN GET THE 60 FT DOWN I MIGHT BE A PLAYER NEXT YEAR. THANKS FOR YOU HELP GUYS. TIM @ MUSTANG SPECIALTIES
buschracing
11-24-2002, 08:48 AM
I know someone that got 1.26 60fts. with a 2700lb 357 (4.03x3.5)PG with a 1.761st. It has ported HighPorts and a stock SuperVictor with a high torque cam that is done (unstable) past 8200. He has a 7" converter that flashes to 6000. The difference between this and a Hot Street 360 is low rpm torque. The smaller cam, heads and 3.5 stroke help make this happen. Most Hot Street stuff is only 3.3 stroke with way more cam and manifold. More 1st gear is the only cure..in fact, most 400s run 1.89 1sts anyway.
JRSRacing
11-25-2002, 05:24 AM
"JRS RACING, DID YOU GUYS DYNO YOUR OLD ENGINE? " Yes, we always have Jon run the numbers on our motors before picking them up.
Duane, is that you? I agree with your statement that most PG's & 400's run the 1.89 1st gear....We do! Its good low, not as good high because the engine RPM's fall further. However, if your motor makes good torque throughout the RPM range its not as big of a deal. If the 360 you have is very "peaky", then it might not like the fall and be very sluggish at 1/2 track.
TH400 may work, there are some units that are heavy with high rotational inertias. You don't want those! I would suspect that with the weight breaks as they are now, neither the Jerico, PG or TH400 is going to be SIGNIFICANTLY quicker than the other. If you're having poor 60's with the PG and can't run the number on the top end then you might as well take the Jerico with poor 60's and at least run out the back end of the track. Of course, we've experienced other "intangibles" that make the manual undesirable for us. Experience may tell you otherwise. Good luck!
buschracing
11-25-2002, 09:50 AM
Yes its Duane:)
I saw some th400 gearsets in the ATI catalogue...they had 2.1's and 2.3's I think. I wonder in their stuff is lightweight or not..if so it would be a good way to go, especially for a 360 that needs the second gear ratio more than a 400.
Hey Ken C. whose stuff are you running?
JRSRacing
11-25-2002, 11:59 AM
Duane,
You going to PRI?
We're going to give it a shot this year. What's this I hear about a new AOD from LENTECH? Fill me in!
Thanks!
RMS Racing
11-25-2002, 01:08 PM
Why doesn't anyone run the C-4? We're going to try it behind a 360 next year when we debut our new HS ride. I think it should 60 ft. very well and use the third gear to help on top end. What do you guys think?
JRSRacing
11-25-2002, 02:06 PM
Duane has used a C4 in his car for quite some time. I'm not sure why they aren't more prevalent in this class, I guess the C4 isn't as universally accepted as drag racing transmission-yet. Perhaps it is a bit of a power hog? Any reliability issues with these trannys Duane?:confused:
90GT398
11-25-2002, 02:11 PM
I have been told and heard from many racers that C-4's do not take well to rpm's, the first racer I heard this from was Alan Whitaker when he switched from a C4 to a glide.
At the same time I know Richard Lelsz ran a C4 last year in Street Bandit and did rather well with it and I am not sure,I think Duane Busch ran a C4 last year and he has done very well with it,he won the Ennis 2001 event ran a 9.42@142.
But I have heard they do not like high rpm's.
WE MIGHT TRY A C-4 TO SEE IF IT WILL WORK BUT IM A LITTLE SCARED TO PULL THE SHIFT LEVER @ 9,800 RPM WITH THAT LITTLE TRANNY. EVERYBODY SAYS THERES ONLY ONE WAY TO FIND OUT IF IT WILL HOLD AND THATS TO TRY IT,I REALLY DONT WANT TO BE THE GUINNEA PIG THOU.BUT IN MY QUEST FOR QUICKER 60 FT. TIMES I MIGHT GIVE IT A WHIRL.NOW FINDING A CONVERTER TO USE IS GONNA BE ANOTHER STORY. TIM @ MUSTANG SPECIALTIES
PBMracing
11-25-2002, 03:08 PM
9800 rpm... Is this import racing??
Hehehe,
Chris:D
buschracing
11-25-2002, 03:44 PM
My C4 never actually broke, just ate clutches in the high gear drum. This is probably from lots of rpm, because Dan Jaynes' Ren. car doesn't eat them as fast as mine. So, yes 9800rpm will mean new clutches every 20 runs or so. This is the penalty for having a small high drum with no surface area, but its LIGHT!
I shifted mine@9100 and went thru@9500 at Atco. I don't think it will break with more RPM, just go thru clutches faster.
As for the AOD I used@BG, its working A LOT better now with a new converter.
PRI?...maybe. Long drive, though(':(')
YEAH 9,800 THERES A DOWN SIDE TO HAVIING A 360 MOTOR YOU GOTTA SPIN EM HARD TO MAKE POWER.MAYBE WITH A 3-SPEED I WONT HAVE TO SPIN IT AS HARD. MIGHT HAVE A POWERGLIDE FOR SALE REAL SOON SO IF ANYONES INTRESTED GIVE ME A CALL 954-942-5202 THANKS TIM @ MUSTANG SPECIALTIES
windsor396
11-25-2002, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by buschracing
Hey Ken C. whose stuff are you running?
I run one of Hutch's TH400's. It's about the only thing I didn't break this season :) Except it breaks your back when take it in and out of the car!
On another note I think one reason a lot of guys don't run the three speeds is the pure lack of consistency. The problem I had was if I had a "small" gear in the car it left great but wouldn't run out the back. Then on the flip side with the "big" gears it was hard to keep it off the bumper but it did run in the big end. I was usually giving up one or the other...
KEN,ARE THE HUTCHES TRANSMISSONS LIGHTWEIGHT INTERNALS?AND DO YOU HAVE A PHONE #?THANKS TIM
windsor396
11-25-2002, 06:12 PM
Hutch# 519-453-4318
I'm not to sure what's in it truthfully, although last years rules stated "stock internals" for every trans except the PG. So all I know is I gave him the rules and told him to build me a killer legal HS trans.
buschracing
11-25-2002, 07:23 PM
If you put in the right 1st gear (which also changes 2nd), a 3 speed should be consistent (unbeatable). Then you can gear the rear end so you can turn it hard thru the lights w/o ending up with too much 1st gear. Very high hp cars (950 and above) or very light cars (2800 and under) run better with 2 speeds because they don't need much gearing to make the car accelerate. Look at Tim Davis and Dan Paolini...they ran 3 speeds.
Agree/disagree? Comments welcome:)
PBMracing
11-25-2002, 09:56 PM
Duane,
Ill do both. Dan Paolini ran both a glide AND a ProTrans. Unfortunately it is not an oranges to oranges comparison due to the fact that the ProTrans is based on a 904 chrysler trans and is NOT legal. One of the front runners knows this ALL too well.
I have been told that the 904 based tranz is worth 1/2 a tenth, but they are PAINFULLY slow off the brake....
Kinda a moot point since they are not allowed.
Chris
windsor396
11-26-2002, 03:41 AM
I agree with that but last year the rules stated you had to have stock internals etc. I'm not sure with that stated in the rules if you could even change ratios etc.
It's to bad I blew that Pro-Mod PA Glide up in Atco! I would love to have been able to A-B the Glide against the TH400 at the track. I guess I'll have to wait until Florida to try the two out :(
JRSRacing
11-26-2002, 05:28 AM
Ken,
That's amazing that you wrecked a Pro-Mod PG! Wow! We've been very pleased with the abuse our PG (Definitely not Pro-Mod strength) has taken. I agree with Duane that if you could get a lower numerical gear ratio in the 3spds (to keep these blasted things off of the bumper) its going to be quicker than a two speed. Disclaimer: the internals on the 3spd have to be relatively light like a PG. Otherwise, you are wasting torque trying to accelerate the internals of the transmission instead of the car.
Comparing Pro Stock to HS is not possible. They can run anything they want and we get saddled with only Ford Trannys and the TH400 and PG. I can guarantee that we will NOT make any PRO races this year. In fact, a wider selection of autos was one request our team made so we could do both. I'm done crying, HS will be enough to keep us busy anyways.:)
SuperLX
11-26-2002, 11:56 PM
Chris
You wouldn't be talkin' about the red coupe with a Glidden motor would you?
PBMracing
11-27-2002, 07:19 AM
Hmmmmm,
Maybe.....
Chris
THE 360 WITH A GLIDE IS GONNA BE HARD.JUST RAN THE CAR AT THE TRACK LAST NIGHT AND ITS DEFINETLY NOT GONNA WORK!TIM
windsor396
11-28-2002, 01:45 PM
Must be nice to go out and run the car, we've got SNOW!
What did you run?
I WENT 9.66@134 LETTING OFF. I JUST CNOT GET A CONVERTER TO LOCK UP! THATS WITH A 1.46 60 FT. OH WELL A G- FORCE IS SOUNDING BETTER EVERY DAY THANKS TIM
buschracing
11-29-2002, 07:26 AM
Hey Tim, you haven't told us what size and brand your converter is...it makes a BIG difference! What stall speed is it? What gear are you running now? RPM through traps?
WHATS UP DUANE? I HAVE BEEN TRYING 7 INCH CONVERTERS USUALLY GO TO 7200-7400 ON THE BRAKE. GOT 5.13 IN THE REAR THE CONVERTERS JUST WONT LOCK UP NOT ENOUGH TORQUE.GONNA TRY SOME NEW TUFF IN A WEEK.THANKS TIM@MUSTANG SPECIALTIES
Rob Galloway
12-03-2002, 08:41 AM
I have been told that the 904 based tranz is worth 1/2 a tenth, but they are PAINFULLY slow off the brake....
Maybe you should put one of these in Chris...that might slow down your driver's reaction ti..... oh wait...err...umm...never mind....
:D
windsor396
12-03-2002, 09:27 AM
Tim,
What kind of slippage are you getting with the 7" converter?
WERE ESTIMATING 15-20% DEPENDING ON THE TRACK.THE CONVERTER WE HAVE NOW IS A TCI AND IT FINALLY GAVE UP ON US SAT.NIGHT TOOK SOME OF THE TRANNY OUT TO. SO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD TO FIGURE THIS THING OUT.THANKS TIM
PBMracing
12-03-2002, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by Rob Galloway
I have been told that the 904 based tranz is worth 1/2 a tenth, but they are PAINFULLY slow off the brake....
Maybe you should put one of these in Chris...that might slow down your driver's reaction ti..... oh wait...err...umm...never mind....
:D
You were thinking for you in that statement ?
Hehehe,
Chris
windsor396
12-04-2002, 03:41 AM
15-20% Ouch! I'm not sure what the 7's are supposed to do but I know the 8's will go 5-8%
I would recomend getting a new converter from TCT or Neal Chance. I've ran them both and never broke a single one! I tried Coan, BTE, Trans Specialty, and a few others and never had any luck with them...
JRSRacing
12-04-2002, 04:59 AM
Even your 7" should not be that high....More like 5 - 8% as well! We like TCT and Coan for our converters although I'm not sure that TCT is making a 7" yet. They do have a very good 8" though. Good luck Tim, see ya at the races!
PBMracing
12-04-2002, 05:49 AM
Yes TCT does make a 7" Converter ;)
Chris
JRSRacing
12-04-2002, 08:03 AM
Me not like the sound of that!:D
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