Customer Torches Ford Dealership

[7DMACH1]

http://cbs4.com/watercooler/local_story_035203500.html

[ISSUES]

what a dumb@$$

and of all the cars he had to plow into the Gulf car :(

im surprised he's not being charged with attempted murder or wreckless endangerment or something of that nature. Hell, he should be charged with 1st degree murder of a GT!

[gilmoujr]

In my opinion, three of the top most crooked jobs: Car Dealers, Lawyers, and Politicians.

Not saying that ALL of those are crooked - just the majority (with regard to lawyers - I am only speaking of the ones who make it a career to make monetary gains off of others misery).

[98tavstang]

You forgot to mention insurance companies!

[edtootall]

In my opinion, three of the top most crooked jobs: Car Dealers, Lawyers, and Politicians.

Not saying that ALL of those are crooked - just the majority (with regard to lawyers - I am only speaking of the ones who make it a career to make monetary gains off of others misery).

Car dealers? Have you ever been screwed by one? If so, how? Did they hold a gun to your head and tell you sign the papers? Give me break :rolleyes:

I come from a Dealership family. We own the largest Lincoln-Mercury store in the US and the 12th largest Ford store in the US. The other side of my family all own GM stores.

We didn't get to where we are now by screwing people. Maybe some jackoff used car lots do that stuff, but a well known dealership would never try to rip people off.

This guy should NEVER have taken delivery of the car unless he read the paperwork! He is a freak'n NUT CASE.

What if someone was standing where he drove through? What if the building caught fire and people where trapped?

Do you burn the Mikey D's down when you pay for a large fry and get a medium? Come on!!!

I think they should bury this a$$hole under the JAIL.

/Rant off/

[Larry Geddes]

Just heard this on the news! Thursday @ 1:00 EST


The guy who crashed the Ford dealership was just found dead in the bathroom of an airplane. Hanged.....WOW!

This story sure became even more bizzarre:eek:

[SprayMan]

I have to agree that guy should have been thrown under the jail. Too many innocent people could have been injured or killed.

[gilmoujr]

Car dealers? Have you ever been screwed by one? If so, how? Did they hold a gun to your head and tell you sign the papers? Maybe the Car DEALERSHIPS are not crooked - but most of the salesmen and saleswomen ARE crooked. The big problem is that they have an incentive to gouge the customer. There is room for this in almost any business but it seems that the car salespeople abuse it the most. I apologize to YOU if I offended your family's business - but you have to admit that most people hate going to a car daelership as much as they hate paying taxes... I also would like to take the opportunity to apologize to all of the non-crooked politicians and lawyers out there, too. I apologize that I feel bad about the career field you chose to join that is plagued by corruption and ripping the consumer off.

Ed2Tall - you shouldn't take things to heart too much... I never said that ALL dealerships were corrupt - or all lawyers, or all politicians... Just the majority of them... I have NEVER been to a car dealership and had a GOOD experience. It was the run-around every time (oh, and I only buy new cars so it cannot be because of the lowly USED car dealership)...

[edtootall]

Ed2Tall - you shouldn't take things to heart too much... I never said that ALL dealerships were corrupt - or all lawyers, or all politicians... Just the majority of them... I have NEVER been to a car dealership and had a GOOD experience. It was the run-around every time (oh, and I only buy new cars so it cannot be because of the lowly USED car dealership)...

First off, what do you do for a living?

Secondly, it sounds like you are dealing with the wrong dealerships or maybe YOU should look in the mirror. Maybe it's not them running you around. Maybe your just a pain in the a$$ to deal with? :eek:

Lastly I do take things to heart. Because people like you keep the "stereo types" going. :rolleyes:

[ISSUES]

Just heard this on the news! Thursday @ 1:00 EST


The guy who crashed the Ford dealership was just found dead in the bathroom of an airplane. Hanged.....WOW!

This story sure became even more bizzarre:eek:

im starting to think that there is more to this story than just "getting screwed" by the dealership.

secondly, how tall was this guy? i mean, have you ever been in the bathroom of an airplane? they're like 2' too short for an average height person so i cant imagine how you could hang yourself in a plang without your feet touching the floor. either way, thats pretty messed up.

[ISSUES]

I come from a Dealership family. We own the largest Lincoln-Mercury store in the US and the 12th largest Ford store in the US. The other side of my family all own GM stores.

if i might ask, what dealership does your family own? would it by chance be Purvis Lincoln-Mercury on Ford Rd?

[gilmoujr]

Secondly, it sounds like you are dealing with the wrong dealerships or maybe YOU should look in the mirror. Maybe it's not them running you around. Maybe your just a pain in the a$$ to deal with? :eek:
And you are proving my point - perfectly! Oh and me... I rob people at ATM's for a living... but hey, it's a living, right?

[edtootall]

if i might ask, what dealership does your family own? would it by chance be Purvis Lincoln-Mercury on Ford Rd?

No. I'll send you a PM with the names.

[edtootall]

And you are proving my point - perfectly! Oh and me... I rob people at ATM's for a living... but hey, it's a living, right?

How am I proving your point? By bashing you like you are doing to anyone that sells cars for a living? I think there are a few car sales people here. I'm just standing up for my job.

Why don't you tell me what you do? Unless you're GOD there are messed up people in your line of work also. :D

You can only be screwed if you aren't smart enough not to be. Last time I checked dealerships don't hold guns to peoples heads and force them to sign on the dotted line. :rolleyes:

[7DMACH1]

Our Lincoln Mercury dealership has been arond since 1954. Don't think we rip people off or we wouldn't be in business. I've been here for 36 years. I get pissed by all the people giving dealerships a bad name too. Appliance repairmen, plumbers, electricians and every other field there is has bad apples too. It's just that dealership get bad mouthed more often. Would you know if a plumber ripped you off?? No because you don't know enough about plumbing. We have one of the highest repeat customer dealerships in the country. Do some research first and don't just shop for price. Price is easy to give, service isn't. You go to a doctor, he charges you. He doesn't fix the problem, you pay again, and again, and again. So who's the rip off???? We fix one thing on you 1996 car with 150,000 milesand you expect that you got a new car and nothing else should ever go wrong. Ok, off my saop box now.

[edtootall]

Our Lincoln Mercury dealership has been arond since 1954. Don't think we rip people off or we wouldn't be in business. I've been here for 36 years. I get pissed by all the people giving dealerships a bad name too. Appliance repairmen, plumbers, electricians and every other field there is has bad apples too. It's just that dealership get bad mouthed more often. Would you know if a plumber ripped you off?? No because you don't know enough about plumbing. We have one of the highest repeat customer dealerships in the country. Do some research first and don't just shop for price. Price is easy to give, service isn't. You go to a doctor, he charges you. He doesn't fix the problem, you pay again, and again, and again. So who's the rip off???? We fix one thing on you 1996 car with 150,000 milesand you expect that you got a new car and nothing else should ever go wrong. Ok, off my saop box now.

*claps his hands*

Thank you. That's what I've been trying to say. People think just because you're a "CAR SALESMAN" you're a crook.

I've sold cars to a bunch of NMRA guys. I take great pride in helping my customers.

Remember a dealership isn't the "Red Cross". We are in business to make money. Yes, some places do have shady sales people, but they don't last in a good dealership.

If your salesperson switches dealerships alot then odds are it isn't the dealership. It's him/her.

[7DMACH1]

Ed you're correct. We have one saleman that 73 years old. He's worked here for over 40 years, we have others with 20, 18, and 15 years. The bumbs come and go. If the sales Mgr. is doing their job these scumb bag salesman won't last a day. Plus the sales Mgr. controls the deal, not the saleman. Jewelry is marked up over 400%, but if we sell a car for $100.00 over invoice we are thieves. The average used car cost about $800.00 to go through our service depot to be customer ready, plus the detail, and paint and body work. People think we allowed them 15k for their trade and then they see us selling it for $18k and we made 3k. WRONG!!!! People think that private sales are a better deal. Well, WRONG AGAIN!!! Is the car reconditioned, NO!!! Who stands behind it if there is a unforeseen problem, nobody. But when you buy from a dealer, we stand behind it. What if something goes wrong and it cost us another $500.00 to fix. What's our profit now??? We do it all the time. Things break that can't be foreseen!! Can we tell if an alternator is going to go bad next week?? No, but we'll get bad mouthed by the customer that we sold him a bumb car!!!

[edtootall]

Ed you're correct. We have one saleman that 73 years old. He's worked here for over 40 years, we have others with 20, 18, and 15 years. The bumbs come and go. If the sales Mgr. is doing their job these scumb bag salesman won't last a day. Plus the sales Mgr. controls the deal, not the saleman. Jewelry is marked up over 400%, but if we sell a car for $100.00 over invoice we are thieves. The average used car cost about $800.00 to go through our service depot to be customer ready, plus the detail, and paint and body work. People think we allowed them 15k for their trade and then they see us selling it for $18k and we made 3k. WRONG!!!! People think that private sales are a better deal. Well, WRONG AGAIN!!! Is the car reconditioned, NO!!! Who stands behind it if there is a unforeseen problem, nobody. But when you buy from a dealer, we stand behind it. What if something goes wrong and it cost us another $500.00 to fix. What's our profit now??? We do it all the time. Things break that can't be foreseen!! Can we tell if an alternator is going to go bad next week?? No, but we'll get bad mouthed by the customer that we sold him a bumb car!!!

Ever been to and Art Van? Furniture is marked up just like Jewelry. It's a frigg'n joke. People don't think twice about buying a 3000 couch that has been maked up from 1000.

I've been at my families dealership since I was 12. I've done everything. Porter,prep tech,auto body tech/painter,bodyshop manager. Now I'm on to the sales end. I hope to be in F&I with the next year and then up another rung on the ladder from there.

[7DMACH1]

Nice talking to you ED. I started driving the Parts Truck in 1969. I moved to a counterman in 1970. Became Mgr. in 1982. My 30 year old son works for me. This is a family dealership with a lot of husbands and wives, sons and daughters. We treat customers like family. We make an honest living and sleep very well at night. I wish people wouldn't profile us!!! Have a good night. Ray:cool:

[edtootall]

Nice talking to you ED. I started driving the Parts Truck in 1969. I moved to a counterman in 1970. Became Mgr. in 1982. My 30 year old son works for me. This is a family dealership with a lot of husbands and wives, sons and daughters. We treat customers like family. We make an honest living and sleep very well at night. I wish people wouldn't profile us!!! Have a good night. Ray:cool:

Ray,

Great chatting with you.

[7DMACH1]

Ed, what's the name of your dealership and wher are you located??

[edtootall]

Ed, what's the name of your dealership and wher are you located??

PM on the way

[NITROSTANGRACIN]

Maybe the Car DEALERSHIPS are not crooked - but most of the salesmen and saleswomen ARE crooked. The big problem is that they have an incentive to gouge the customer. There is room for this in almost any business but it seems that the car salespeople abuse it the most. I apologize to YOU if I offended your family's business - but you have to admit that most people hate going to a car daelership as much as they hate paying taxes... I also would like to take the opportunity to apologize to all of the non-crooked politicians and lawyers out there, too. I apologize that I feel bad about the career field you chose to join that is plagued by corruption and ripping the consumer off.

Ed2Tall - you shouldn't take things to heart too much... I never said that ALL dealerships were corrupt - or all lawyers, or all politicians... Just the majority of them... I have NEVER been to a car dealership and had a GOOD experience. It was the run-around every time (oh, and I only buy new cars so it cannot be because of the lowly USED car dealership)...



I am local to this. Trust me when I tell you that this dealership kind of deserved this. They are known for hammering customers. This guy wnet about it the wrong way though. when he went back to complain about thre deal, Florida Law says he has 72 hours remorse to return the car within a certain mileage also.

[blown54]

Ed i know the group of dealerships thats in your family and never had a problem in fact i have a salesman in ann arbor that takes great care of me and the wife.But like was said there are crooked dealerships.Here is an example.Back in 96 i ordered a mistic cobra with all options put down a $1500 deposite in i think it was in November.Also i was getting a-plan.Then when the car finaly came in which i think was the first week of May.I had a way back then to tell when my car was built so i was stopping in periodicly to see if it came in.Well i stopped in at lunch time and the car just came off the truck and i talked to the salesman about it and took it for a quick ride.then i told him i would be back late to sign the papers and alll that stuff after i got out of work.well six hours later i showed up to get my car and guess what.No car! the sales man then told me that a guy came in earlier and offered over sticker can't remember how much so they sold it to him!Then it took them 2 days to get me my money back since then i never dealt with them or ever will.And there has been one other place that i have had problems with.

[SprayMan]

Hey guys yall are correct about dealers getting a bad rap. The press has a field day with car dealers and the service facilities. I do have a question for those of you that are dealers or management of dealers. The labor rates of dealer service departments is at a rediculous level, average around here is 82.50 per hr. The technitions are at the same basic rate they were at 10 years ago. If the rate the dealer charges has at least doubled why do the employees not see any increase? :rolleyes:

[edtootall]

I am local to this. Trust me when I tell you that this dealership kind of deserved this. They are known for hammering customers. This guy wnet about it the wrong way though. when he went back to complain about thre deal, Florida Law says he has 72 hours remorse to return the car within a certain mileage also.

That's my point.

If the story is true he hung himself then he had more going on then just a bad car deal.

Ed i know the group of dealerships thats in your family and never had a problem in fact i have a salesman in ann arbor that takes great care of me and the wife.

Who is your salesperson? I'll pass along this message. We like hearing those things. It makes our day.

Thanks again for the business. If there is anything I can ever do for you please feel free to let me know

Matt Stanford


Hey guys yall are correct about dealers getting a bad rap. The press has a field day with car dealers and the service facilities. I do have a question for those of you that are dealers or management of dealers. The labor rates of dealer service departments is at a rediculous level, average around here is 82.50 per hr. The technitions are at the same basic rate they were at 10 years ago. If the rate the dealer charges has at least doubled why do the employees not see any increase? :rolleyes:

Well our techs are VERY well paid.

Also remember the COST of doing business. The building,tools,insurance(both health and liability)etc.

[7DMACH1]

Yes, expenses have increased. Our gas bill for heating. Last year for Jan. it was 4400.00, this year 8200.00. Gasoline has doubled too. Our maintance labor rate is $40.00. Our average labor rate is $57.50. Yes high tech work is $90.00. How much has hospitalization increased? Can we charge more due to these increases, NO!!! If we charge more for cars or parts than other dealers, people will buy from the others, so our profit decreases.

[edtootall]

Yes, expenses have increased. Our gas bill for heating. Last year for Jan. it was 4400.00, this year 8200.00. Gasoline has doubled too. Our maintance labor rate is $40.00. Our average labor rate is $57.50. Yes high tech work is $90.00. How much has hospitalization increased? Can we charge more due to these increases, NO!!! If we charge more for cars or parts than other dealers, people will buy from the others, so our profit decreases.

I don't know how your business is, but ours has slowed down. Michigan is in some serious trouble when it come to the auto industry. The only thing that hasn't gone down is the cost of doing business :(

[7DMACH1]

I had to lay off 3 people. This is the worst I've seen in 36 years. Never did I ever have to lay anyone off. Even the energy crisis wasn't this bad.

[SprayMan]

I completely understand about rise in cost of doing bussiness. But do we as employees not endure most of the cost of rising insurance rates and such? Please dont get me wrong,Im not trying to start an argument Im just stating facts as I see them. We technitions spend countless thousands of dollars on tools and endless hours of education and training to perform a job that we havent seen a decent pay scale increase in many years. Ford keeps cutting warranty time,Dealers keep raising labor rates to offset costs and techs are left with whats left over. Im off my soap box now. As dealers I would think you guys would look into this a little closer, Because as you know good Techs are getting very hard to come by. Thanks guys for letting me speak briefly about this issue.:)

[7DMACH1]

Yes, I understand and hear you. I work on commision. Our parts sales are way down, so is my pay check. We are all in the same boat.

[edtootall]

I completely understand about rise in cost of doing bussiness. But do we as employees not endure most of the cost of rising insurance rates and such? Please dont get me wrong,Im not trying to start an argument Im just stating facts as I see them. We technitions spend countless thousands of dollars on tools and endless hours of education and training to perform a job that we havent seen a decent pay scale increase in many years. Ford keeps cutting warranty time,Dealers keep raising labor rates to offset costs and techs are left with whats left over. Im off my soap box now. As dealers I would think you guys would look into this a little closer, Because as you know good Techs are getting very hard to come by. Thanks guys for letting me speak briefly about this issue.:)

You don't think the dealership pays more when the insurance premiums go up? You don't pay 100% for your insurance do you?

As for tools. Yes, you pay for them, but do you not write them off on your taxes? Also I don't know about your shop, but do you pay for a the testing equimpment? How about all the "special" tools from Ford?

Education and training just like tools can be written off on your taxes.

Yes, It's hard to get a well trained hard working Tech these days, but it's also hard to pay them if the work isn't coming into the shop.

Dealerships are a tough business to be in. Hell I've looked at getting of here for quite a while, but I just can't seem to break free. I love this business too much.

[scjfox]

I wish the people that own my lincoln dealer could see this stuff, maybe it would change their attitude towards me (the employee) and their customers. But I hope the guy that did that gets all 30 years of his sentence!

[7DMACH1]

HE'S DEAD!!!! HUNG HIMSELF IN AN AIRPLANE :eek:

[edtootall]

HE'S DEAD!!!! HUNG HIMSELF IN AN AIRPLANE :eek:

I don't think he is. I tried to find some info that. Google doesn't have anything. And Google owns the world. I'll keep checking though.


*edit*

I was wrong

Here is the link. He is dead

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/email/news/breaking_news/13831219.htm

[SprayMan]

Typical management response,And typical avoidance of the question asked. Yes I do take all tool purchases off on taxes,Yes I do take all training expenses off on my taxes. I do own all my diagnostic equipment because the cheap ass dealer thinks that one WDS will suffice for the entire shop. Lets not turn this into an argument. There will always be a difference of opinion between management and the real world people that actually make things happen. HAVE A NICE DAY.:)

[edtootall]

Typical management response,And typical avoidance of the question asked. Yes I do take all tool purchases off on taxes,Yes I do take all training expenses off on my taxes. I do own all my diagnostic equipment because the cheap ass dealer thinks that one WDS will suffice for the entire shop. Lets not turn this into an argument. There will always be a difference of opinion between management and the real world people that actually make things happen. HAVE A NICE DAY.:)

1. I'm not management

2. We have alot of diagnostic equipment paid for by the dealership.

3. Not an argument, just giving you the "facts"

[SprayMan]

I forgot to tell ya, that is a nice looking coupe.

[edtootall]

I forgot to tell ya, that is a nice looking coupe.

Hey thanks. If I was management it would be a SSO car :D, but for now it's just my 10 second sunny day driver

[SprayMan]

Im waiting on the guy at the chassis shop to get finished with the cage in my 88LX. I have been running some Drag Radial races locally on 1/8th mile tracks. Hope to be a little more consistant this year with some much needed bracing.:)

[edtootall]

Im waiting on the guy at the chassis shop to get finished with the cage in my 88LX. I have been running some Drag Radial races locally on 1/8th mile tracks. Hope to be a little more consistant this year with some much needed bracing.:)

D/R is a crazy class in NMRA. Those guys are NUTS. Same with SSO

[SprayMan]

I wish I could run with the big dogs that run NMRA. I dont think my little 306 would live long having to spray it with enough to run with those guys.:D Nobody ever accused drag radial guys of having good sense.

[GS400]

Hey guys yall are correct about dealers getting a bad rap. The press has a field day with car dealers and the service facilities. I do have a question for those of you that are dealers or management of dealers. The labor rates of dealer service departments is at a rediculous level, average around here is 82.50 per hr. The technitions are at the same basic rate they were at 10 years ago. If the rate the dealer charges has at least doubled why do the employees not see any increase? :rolleyes:


WELL SPOKEN!!!! I think it will always be a struggle between management and subordinant positions. Management has their reasons, and us little folk usually are the last they worry about. Our labor rate was 79.95 last year and now is at 90.00/hr. Do us techs see a rise in pay based on a percentage of increased labor rate? NOPE! It does suck for the consumer seeing how they have to pay 90.00 an hour, but it sucks for the tech when we make less than a 1/3 of that an hour, cutting our hands, breaking our backs and having to pay for our own tools, schooling etc... I have worked for dealerships and private shops and it is much the same at both. It is a hard living being a tech dealing with chemicals, back pain, cuts etc... BUT when you love doing something, you negate those probs.

[gilmoujr]

I knew I'd find it somewhere... Apparently I am not the only one...

Check out these surveys:
The "least trusted" professionals , according to the poll, were politicians who took a third of the vote with 33 per cent, followed by car salesmen, 24 per cent, and estate agents, 19 per cent.
http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=177202002
--------------------------
Here are the five professions and occupations considered least honest by the American public (the Bottom Five list), based on the percentages rating the occupation low or very low on honesty and ethics:

+ Car salesmen (57 percent)
+ Telemarketers (55 percent)
+ Insurance salesmen (44 percent)
+ HMO managers (41 percent)
+ Lawyers (41 percent)
http://www.globalethics.org/newsline/members/issue.tmpl?articleid=11219922225391


And a good read for those who care anymore: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/wheels/227767_talk10.html?source=rss
See I do not just come here and bash - I get other opinions to back me up and to also show that there can be a remedy.

I really enjoyed the last article. Basically a guy writes a newspaper or radio talk show to complain about how he can't make commission because the talk show people are advising potiential buyers to shoot for a figure based on invoice price. They explained that if car dealerships/salemen would lay all their cards on the table and give the customer the bottom line figure first then there would be an increase in trust that would get them higher sales perpetually. In our society, why is there NOT a set price for cars anyway. We have moved from a barter society to a fair, fixed price society so why should cars be any different. Set your profit margin and put a fixed price on the car. I bet you'd see more people come through your doors that the other dealerships in your area if you were to put a fixed price on the window that beats ANY other dealer. As you know, the service department makes your most money anyway... I would bet money that if I were to be a car salesman for a week, I could outsell most of the other car salemen on the lot - as long as the "manager" did not have to approve the final number. Granted, (s)he and I would go over the bottom number before I started making any sales anyway, so I would already know the rock-bottom price. They would have to give me free-reign otherwise to complete the sale (outside of prostituting myself out to the customer, of course).

Earning my ModularMisfits Nickname: The Brain...

[edtootall]

I knew I'd find it somewhere... Apparently I am not the only one...

Check out these surveys:
The "least trusted" professionals , according to the poll, were politicians who took a third of the vote with 33 per cent, followed by car salesmen, 24 per cent, and estate agents, 19 per cent.
http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=177202002
--------------------------
Here are the five professions and occupations considered least honest by the American public (the Bottom Five list), based on the percentages rating the occupation low or very low on honesty and ethics:

+ Car salesmen (57 percent)
+ Telemarketers (55 percent)
+ Insurance salesmen (44 percent)
+ HMO managers (41 percent)
+ Lawyers (41 percent)
http://www.globalethics.org/newsline/members/issue.tmpl?articleid=11219922225391


And a good read for those who care anymore: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/wheels/227767_talk10.html?source=rss
See I do not just come here and bash - I get other opinions to back me up and to also show that there can be a remedy.

I really enjoyed the last article. Basically a guy writes a newspaper or radio talk show to complain about how he can't make commission because the talk show people are advising potiential buyers to shoot for a figure based on invoice price. They explained that if car dealerships/salemen would lay all their cards on the table and give the customer the bottom line figure first then there would be an increase in trust that would get them higher sales perpetually. 1. In our society, why is there NOT a set price for cars anyway. We have moved from a barter society to a fair, fixed price society so why should cars be any different. 2. Set your profit margin and put a fixed price on the car. I bet you'd see more people come through your doors that the other dealerships in your area if you were to put a fixed price on the window that beats ANY other dealer. 3.As you know, the service department makes your most money anyway... 4. I would bet money that if I were to be a car salesman for a week, I could outsell most of the other car salemen on the lot - as long as the "manager" did not have to approve the final number. Granted, (s)he and I would go over the bottom number before I started making any sales anyway, so I would already know the rock-bottom price. They would have to give me free-reign otherwise to complete the sale (outside of prostituting myself out to the customer, of course).

Earning my ModularMisfits Nickname: The Brain...

1. For the same reason CVS can sell hairspray for 2.00 and Walgreen's is 2.20. It's call free market.

2. So what happens when all the dealers do that? Then how does a customer pick which dealership to go to?

3. Sorry Sir you are sadly mistaken. Our Service Dept is just a "support staff" for our Sale Dept. Maybe in the small dealerships Service it king, but in a larger dealership Service is there to support the Sales Dept.

4. Once again a Dealership is not the Red Cross. You can't just give cars away. You have to make a profit. If you don't the dealership wouldn't have a reason to be in business.

Plus people just don't walk in,sit down and buy a car. They SHOP!!! 75% of customers do NOT buy on their first trip to a Dealership.

When you are looking for parts for your car do you just call Summit because they say they have everything the cheapest? I doubt it. You look through the mags and see who has stuff on Sale.

What about Trade-ins? Let me guess you would give them whatever they wanted? Hmmm that would be really good for the Used Car Dept. They would be stuck with a bunch of cars they have WAY to much money in.

BTW you wouldn't last a month in cars sales. If you did, you couldn't pay your bills. It's easy to be a quarter back coach, but once your in the game it's a whole different story.

Anytime you feel you can be a STAR salesmen swing on up to Michigan. I WILL have a job waiting for you. Just make sure to have some money set aside because you won't be going home with much.

I make $125.00 if I sell a car at invoice. We sell 400 a month with 30 sales people. You do the math :rolleyes:

[edtootall]

100% Ed I agree that there are good and bad dealerships, like the ones that charge you 8-10,000 dollars over retail, and all that good sh!t. BUT YOU ARE A DICK HEAD NO WONDER THAT FVCKING CAR OF YOURS IS SLOW, do you sell any cars, you couldn't, your a smartass punk. This guy out of no where starts bashing me like I pissed on his mothers grave, on this site just because I was messing with his buddies about chevies. Also I am 100% FORD all the way, but I do hope both recover from the recent bs. Good luck selling cars Ed, see ya around d!ckhead.:eek: :cool:

You have a PM you spineless Redneck piece of SH!T. Be a man this year at Bowling Green cause I'm gonna be looking for you.

I knew I'd find it somewhere... Apparently I am not the only one...

Check out these surveys:
The "least trusted" professionals , according to the poll, were politicians who took a third of the vote with 33 per cent, followed by car salesmen, 24 per cent, and estate agents, 19 per cent.
http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=177202002
--------------------------
Here are the five professions and occupations considered least honest by the American public (the Bottom Five list), based on the percentages rating the occupation low or very low on honesty and ethics:

+ Car salesmen (57 percent)
+ Telemarketers (55 percent)
+ Insurance salesmen (44 percent)
+ HMO managers (41 percent)
+ Lawyers (41 percent)
http://www.globalethics.org/newsline/members/issue.tmpl?articleid=11219922225391


And a good read for those who care anymore: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/wheels/227767_talk10.html?source=rss
See I do not just come here and bash - I get other opinions to back me up and to also show that there can be a remedy.

I really enjoyed the last article. Basically a guy writes a newspaper or radio talk show to complain about how he can't make commission because the talk show people are advising potiential buyers to shoot for a figure based on invoice price. They explained that if car dealerships/salemen would lay all their cards on the table and give the customer the bottom line figure first then there would be an increase in trust that would get them higher sales perpetually. 1. In our society, why is there NOT a set price for cars anyway. We have moved from a barter society to a fair, fixed price society so why should cars be any different. 2. Set your profit margin and put a fixed price on the car. I bet you'd see more people come through your doors that the other dealerships in your area if you were to put a fixed price on the window that beats ANY other dealer. 3.As you know, the service department makes your most money anyway... 4. I would bet money that if I were to be a car salesman for a week, I could outsell most of the other car salemen on the lot - as long as the "manager" did not have to approve the final number. Granted, (s)he and I would go over the bottom number before I started making any sales anyway, so I would already know the rock-bottom price. They would have to give me free-reign otherwise to complete the sale (outside of prostituting myself out to the customer, of course).

Earning my ModularMisfits Nickname: The Brain...

1. For the same reason CVS can sell hairspray for 2.00 and Walgreen's is 2.20. It's call free market.

2. So what happens when all the dealers do that? Then how does a customer pick which dealership to go to?

3. Sorry Sir you are sadly mistaken. Our Service Dept is just a "support staff" for our Sale Dept. Maybe in the small dealerships Service it king, but in a larger dealership Service is there to support the Sales Dept.

4. Once again a Dealership is not the Red Cross. You can't just give cars away. You have to make a profit. If you don't the dealership wouldn't have a reason to be in business.

Plus people just don't walk in,sit down and buy a car. They SHOP!!! 75% of customers do NOT buy on their first trip to a Dealership.

When you are looking for parts for your car do you just call Summit because they say they have everything the cheapest? I doubt it. You look through the mags and see who has stuff on Sale.

What about Trade-ins? Let me guess you would give them whatever they wanted? Hmmm that would be really good for the Used Car Dept. They would be stuck with a bunch of cars they have WAY to much money in.

BTW you wouldn't last a month in cars sales. If you did, you couldn't pay your bills. It's easy to be a quarter back coach, but once your in the game it's a whole different story.

Anytime you feel you can be a STAR salesmen swing on up to Michigan. I WILL have a job waiting for you. Just make sure to have some money set aside because you won't be going home with much.

I make $125.00 if I sell a car at invoice. We sell 400 a month with 30 sales people. You do the math :rolleyes:

[7DMACH1]

Why do we still barter for houses and private car sales. Flee markets are the best. So cars aren't the only thing. People sell parts on these web sites, do they sell it for what they are asking all the time?

[edtootall]

I WILL BE THERE MATTER FACT, I will be at a few more as long as I don't have breakage or some bull like that. Come lookin for me, we can hook up run, but you come up runnin your mouth like you do on here, and I promise you, you won't do it again, to be honest with you I could give a Fvck what you do as long as you don't step on my toes. I think it's best if you avoid me unless you just wanna run.:cool:

Shhhh the grown ups are talking. Just take your inbred a$$ back under the trailer where you crawled out from.

[R347GT]

hi ed

[edtootall]

Why do we still barter for houses and private car sales. Flee markets are the best. So cars aren't the only thing. People sell parts on these web sites, do they sell it for what they are asking all the time?

Thank you. That's my point.

[ISSUES]

WOW! ive missed alot on this thread. i though tthis one was dead but i guess i was wrong :)

Earning my ModularMisfits Nickname: The Brain...

i know how you really got that nickname :)

i believe you told a story about squeezing something :confused:

[gilmoujr]

Why do we still barter for houses and private car sales. Flee markets are the best. So cars aren't the only thing. People sell parts on these web sites, do they sell it for what they are asking all the time?Because GENERALLY car sales on the internet are for USED cars which have a relative value for their condition... Private car sales are the same way - show me more than one example of a private sale of a car that is not considered USED. Even if you buy a car, take it home and let it sit for a year with 2 miles on it - it is still considered USED. When you buy a NEW home or have one BUILT is there generally any bartering - NO. I have had 2 built and one was in a development - and they did not budge on the price - nor did my contractors when I built a house. The contractors gave me a price and if I agreed for the service I was getting - then I went with him. He did not give me a price and I say - well, that is a bit too steep - and he comes back with a new price... he tells me what it costs for HIM to do work for ME and I either accept it ir reject it. As far as finding a sale - like CVS, then have a specific price for EVERYTHING - a sale is just that - it is not BARTERING... I have provided SOUND proof that MANY Americans consider that particular profession less than honest. I NEVER attacked either of you personally - just stating what MANY people think. You two took it personally... BTW, I have one of the most DESIRED jobs in the country...

[edtootall]

BTW, I have one of the most DESIRED jobs in the country...

And what is that?

[gilmoujr]

I am an Actuary...
and since most of you probably think of INSURANCE, then I will dispell that as well. I run statistics for all kinds of organizations. Basically, I look for trends in anything that can be calculated or interpret the results of calculations to assess the risk involved with undertaking a specific task(s) and reducing that risk - or "creating" a desired affect based on risk acknowledgement/management.

This past year - it was the #2 ranked most desireable job in the United States.

[edtootall]

I am an Actuary...
and since most of you probably think of INSURANCE, then I will dispell that as well. I run statistics for all kinds of organizations. Basically, I look for trends in anything that can be calculated or interpret the results of calculations to assess the risk involved with undertaking a specific task(s) and reducing that risk - or "creating" a desired affect based on risk acknowledgement/management.

This past year - it was the #2 ranked most desireable job in the United States.

Really. Like in "Along came Polly"?

[gilmoujr]

No... Like in...

Statistcally speaking, if you miss third gear, you will have a 90%+ chance of losing a race. Therefore, if your odd are great that you will miss third gear (past repetitive performance), then it would be better to save the money and get a new hobby... LOL

Just crack-a-lacking on your signature...

Somewhat like "Along Came Polly" only Rueben didn't "SCUBA" with my wife... The only thing is that he was an actuary for an insurance company, whereas I do statistics for things like mitigating the risks of purchasing a company or whatever else is needed for me to do... mostly INTENSE statistical analyses.

[edtootall]

No... Like in...

Statistcally speaking, if you miss third gear, you will have a 90%+ chance of losing a race. Therefore, if your odd are great that you will miss third gear (past repetitive performance), then it would be better to save the money and get a new hobby... LOL

Just crack-a-lacking on your signature...

Somewhat like "Along Came Polly" only Rueben didn't "SCUBA" with my wife... The only thing is that he was an actuary for an insurance company, whereas I do statistics for things like mitigating the risks of purchasing a company or whatever else is needed for me to do... mostly INTENSE statistical analyses.


LOL I thought maybe you had been talking to some of my friends or reading the Street/Kill stories section. LOL

So where did you go to school for this? What type of degree do you have? I assume you did go to school and have a degree.

[79malibu]

Edtotall, your a sleazy salesman, lol

[edtootall]

Edtotall, your a sleazy salesman, lol


And you still can't spell :D

"Edtootall" and "you're" :rolleyes: LOL

[79malibu]

And you still can't spell :D

"Edtootall" and "you're" :rolleyes: LOL


haha

[edtootall]

haha


;) :D

[afflicted1]

I'm just going to add my 2 cents into all of this.

I've been on both sides of the desk when it comes to car dealing and I've noticed a few things. When I first started buying cars, salespeople treated me like complete ****. I had the money to buy the vehicles, I was just young. Later, when the vehicles got more expensive and had to finance they treated me like **** because I had no credit. Still later while trading in cars that were negative equity, never once did a salesperson, or dealership personel look out for my best interest and tell me the mistakes I was making. It's a business, after all, I wouldn't expect them too. Then in 1996 I started selling cars and I approached it with the desire to be a different kind of salesperson. One who wouldn't judge people by the car they rolled up in, or how much of a car that they could afford. One who wouldn't pressure or lie to the customer about a vehicle that I damn well knew was a piece of crap.

There's a saying at dealerships that holds true....buyers are liars. Salespeople are like they are because customers are the way they are, and vice versa. So many times someone walked through the door, and said they were just in for a test drive and had no intention on buying a car for a few weeks or months. After explaining all options, info, and test driving, (usually about an hour out of my day) they'd go across the street to the Chevy dealer and leave with a new Tahoe. Or they tell you that another dealer quoted them a price that you know is just absolute ********. Or the assholes who try to buy a car over the phone.. I once had a guy who wanted an F-250 stripped down. After calling the dude back and giving him a price and the basic spiel about how our dealership was different, free oil changes, customer service lines.etc...we were like 350 dollars apart. I then asked him if he'd like a spare tire and a rear bumper with his truck.. he said "hell yes why would I buy a truck with no bumper and no spare? I told him the price that the other dealership gave him was without those items, because they didn't come standard on an 97 f-250 xl stripped down. My point being that why would he want to buy a truck from a dealer that didn't even care enough to tell him that he'd buy a truck that he'd be pissed about. He went to the other dealer and confronted the sales guy and still bought from him.

The salespeople lie, the customers lie too. The salesmanagers lie when you've got a deal on a car and another salesperson has hit another customer with a higher price and they tell you it's already been sold. On the other hand the Salesperson sells you a car for invoice and makes about 50.00 pre-tax, and thats if you don't have to spend money for airbrushing touch ups and extra wheel locks and things. Where I worked, the airbrush service got 75 dollars a car, the owners nephew, when putting away stock would deliberately ding each car door, so the dealership would profit an extra 25-30 percent off of the 75 being charged back to the salesperson.

Here's some of the ways dealers make the money..

Selling you the car above invoice, or better yet, leasing it to you above sticker. Even if they sell 100 cars for "no profit at invoice", they still get money for selling quantities and moving stock.
Withholding the holdback on last years model, or better yet, the undermoney.
They steal money from your trade, they're already paying you wholesale for your car in the first place, but then the salesman will just tell you're getting 4700 for your trade instead of 5000.
Severely overpriced aftermarket anything. Especially on leased vehicles.
Then there are the following markups....
1. The markup between the finance managers buy-rate and what he sells you the loan for.
2. The markup on extended warranties.
3. Tax credits of your leased vehicle turn-ins.
4. Like I read somewhere else shop labor is 85.00 and paying the Mechanic 25.00. This is why they want you to bring your car back to them even if it's under warranty. At least pick a dealer that gives you free loaner cars when yours is in for repairs.
I could go on and on and argue both sides of this for hours...it might be fun when we all get drunk. But buying a car is like anything else, you've got to be prepared.

1. Don't go to a dealership not knowing what you want to buy.
2. Don't go to a dealership not knowing the prices that you are going to be expected to pay. KBB.com check it out. There's nothing wrong with going online finding the invoice price, walking into a dealer and saying here's what I'm going to pay, this is what I want, you've got one shot, take it or leave it. I don't know a dealer that wouldn't take a quick no-hassle deal like that.
3. Don't buy a car unless you shop around for your best interest rates before getting to the dealer. Check your credit union or insurance company, they'll hook you up and most likely save you a bunch of money. If nothing else, you can use their lowest rate and make the finance manager find you an even lower rate. He'll treat you like ****, but it's just because he's not making as much off of you as he would someone who doesn't know the deal.
4. Use credit card rebate earnings in the finance office, never let the salesperson know you've got them. If you're a,b, or x-plan then go ahead and tell them right off the bat.
5. Obviously, read all the paperwork associated with the loan and make sure it's a simple interest loan, most of the 2.9% deals aren't, but then again your getting a substantial savings.

There's a lot more to the whole spectrum of how to get ripped off, but the fact is, the dealers are there to make money - as much of it from you as possible. If it was your business, you'd do the same.

[edtootall]

What state did you sell in?

[afflicted1]

Illinois. I sold Fords. I wasn't a Ford fan at the time by any means, but I always had a good opinion of the truck line.