Nitrous in drag radial

[brothern2o]

I am not big on going to the races but I look everyday to see if there is anyone with a nitrous car that looks to be competative in drag radial. Heck I would have hoped to sell my old car and buy Tim Johnstons turbo car. Is there anyone that thinks a decently tuned nitrous car could compete? It seems as though they took enough weight off to help. Any thoughts?

[SSO2191]

The problem is controling the power. If you build a big victor headed nitrous motor (which is still 3000lbs min.:confused: ) It makes so much bottom end power with the juice it is hard to control because if you don't have all the power it has on by around 100' out you might as well just let off the gas and not waste your time. The smaller combo's (360ci) would be the best bet if they would allow the victor heads on it at the same weight. It would have to be a bad mofo of a motor and rev to at least 9500 than you might be able to run a high 30 at best. that is why I have a blower now. It is way easier to make power. It still sucks that the rules can't be fair for nitrous cars:mad:

[Pat Tracy]

Nitrous cars could be competitive at 2600 lbs with a Victor or TFS-R head.
Just my .02 cents.

[brothern2o]

would NMRA help out a serious nitrous contender. I guess that is the big question. I really don't think a 400" nitrous motor makes near as much power as a 360" forced induction motor. Wonder if nmra would give me a 5 car head start. LOL

[90GT398]

The problem is controling the power. If you build a big victor headed nitrous motor (which is still 3000lbs min.:confused: ) It makes so much bottom end power with the juice it is hard to control because if you don't have all the power it has on by around 100' out you might as well just let off the gas and not waste your time. The smaller combo's (360ci) would be the best bet if they would allow the victor heads on it at the same weight. It would have to be a bad mofo of a motor and rev to at least 9500 than you might be able to run a high 30 at best. that is why I have a blower now. It is way easier to make power. It still sucks that the rules can't be fair for nitrous cars:mad:

Just curious how much would a 360 Victor headed nitrous combo have to weigh?

***edit*** Never mind I decided to not be lazy and looked it up 2800 with Victor's, and a 360.

[Sean Knighton]

Just curious how much would a 360 Victor headed nitrous combo have to weigh?

***edit*** Never mind I decided to not be lazy and looked it up 2800 with Victor's, and a 360.

Had to ask this Gunny, What book, program or website has the absolute numbers? I have used the Moroso PS Calculator to give an idea. Just being curious?

[90GT398]

Absolute numbers as far as horsepower I wouldn't know, because just as SSO2191 alluded to, if you are not hooked and booked inside of the first 100 feet, you are along for the ride.

Would be interesting to see what a nitrous car could do on a 2756015 Mickey though setup at 360 cubes, maybe that is what it takes let the nitrous only cars try it with the Mickey but limit the size to a 2756015.

Heck I would just like to see nitrous cars back out there :D

[arena]

I had serious issues with tire shake when I ran a 360@2950# in '03 but it seems they've come a long way with it the last 2 years or is it just the boost controllers?I thought about the 440 victor deal but like sso2191 said you wont get it all on in time.

[Sean Knighton]

Its just an opinion... But multi-stages (more than 2) of nitrous is the key here. The way HP is laid down with the three power adders is very different. Having the ability to multi stage the N2O would still give ya a good launch and then bring the other two stages in for the finish. The difference between a linear power application (blower) and a exponential power application (Turbo & N2O) can determine how the 60 ft will turn out. Now granted, getting the weight out of the car is certainly going to be a factor too. It would be nice to see the addition of a N2O combo being competitive. FWIW

[Pat Tracy]

If you run a 360 CI with a non Victor or TFS-R head you can weight 2650lbs. A good set of ported TFS High Ports or a AFR 225 would run pretty good with a two stage fogger.

[brothern2o]

From what I can understand you need cubic inches to put in more nitrous and to be competative in drag radial you will need all the nitrous you can use, has something to do with reversion. I think a smaller cube motor will just not be able to make enough power. I talked to an expert on nitrous and he told me to run two stages leave on a small shot, bring in a big shot and turn off the small shot then turn the first stage back on when the tire will hold it. Who knows I am sure it is to late for wieght breaks or a mickey.

[SSO2191]

I ran a 356 CI motor in Columbus last year becuase my 400 inch Victor Glidden motor was hurt. My 356 had a set of high ports done by Dave Jack. I had a two stage plate (Gene Fulton) with 650HP jets in it. (96/96 jets on both stages) It ran 8.64 @ 160mph (on KILL). That is about the fastest 8.2 deck, high port, plate nitrous motor in the country. Don't get me wrong it ran great and was pretty easy to hook it up but 8.64 is about enough for a first round loss. The other problem with the weights is that they do not allow aluminum blocks and there is no way to get the front to rear weight balance right. I really don't know how or what kind of rules it would take to have a nitrous car competetive. It is sad to say but I don't ever think you will see a nitrous car do good in DR again (without some major rules changes):mad: :(

[brothern2o]

Matt, talked to you about your old combo and that plate. Thought you were pretty heavy on those passes with that old motor. Why don't you sell that plate I know someone who could try and use it.

[SSO2191]

Actually my brother has it now. He is going to use it with my Victor headed motor in some local DR races. Had to keep it in the family:D That plate is a BAD piece:D

[brothern2o]

Cool maybe I will see you around, I actually talked to fulton about that plate and speedtech about thier plate. Currently have a two stage nx plate and the nos plate I got from you. I am going to massage the nx plate and do what you told me to do with timing at the corners of the motor and if i can't keep plugs in the motor I will have a new plate in the car. Let me know if he wants rid of that plate.

[speer13]

I think nitrous can be competative again.... nobody has built the right combo.... it may go high 30's low 40's but will be consistant..... I know of a small motor with victor heads capable of around 950+ at the wheels @ 2800 pounds....... I just dont think it will be out before it goes turbo! brothern20 I havent looked at the rules for a bit on the nitrous plates but unless you had a special plate made by NX they used to only have the 8 bar 2 stage plates which used to be illegal.... not sure now... when NX sponsored me they made me a 4 bar 2 stage plate just for dragradial....that worked killer

[brothern2o]

I forgot I had an 8 spray bar plate I think it is now legal. Don't matter I doubt I could go fast enough to qualify this year but maybe if I stay nitrous we'll just wait and see. I think it is possible to make enough power to go 30 or 40's this year. However I think Matt hit the nail on the head about car balance. Everything I have read or heard about drag radial has alot less nose weight than what I have. I am currently trying to figure out how to move 8% weight from front to rear.

[timneagroup]

my car works the best around 51-52% in the rear.

[brothern2o]

I know you told me car was something like 51% imagine a front mount nitrous sytem 9.5 deck block hangin out front I am like 58% or so out front. I am thinking of putting fuel sytem out back and pushing front seat back 6" so the back of front seat is all but at front of rear seats and keeping bottles in trunk. to get more weight to rear.

[jimmy byrne]

,First off, let me just say that weight ain't making one damn bit of difference of a BFG tire. The more weight you can put on the back tire, the more traction, the faster you will go.
I would like to see a minimum of 50% weight bias on the front of the car type of rule written. "It don't take no brains" to pile a bunch of weight in the rear bumper to make a car hook.
A nitrous combo would have been competitive last year. This is what I had heard from people directly...those people being James Lawrence and Trace Meyer, in casual conversation. And I do agree with them 100%. But it would take a "Bill Glidden effort" to do so. Something that I have not seen out of anyone with forced induction (at this level of racing). What I am trying to say is, that the power potential is there with nitrous combo (last year). I have been just over 170 mph at 3300# last year with a 434 victor/glidden headed, single stage fogger combo. But yes, the problem is in the control of the power. I do not think a single fogger equipped victor/tfs-r headed combo would have done it. But I do think that a two stage plate combo would have done it (hurting a lot of parts though), or even better, a two staged fogger combo with a TFS high port head. I never tried it because I had so many other places to race with what I had.
Now we are in 2006, NMRA allowed in a two stage fogger combo (with victor/TFS-R heads), allowed everybody to run victor/TFS-R heads, and conventional heads get a bit of a weight break. If I had half of a brain, I would be over here racing, instead of "fitting in" in NMCA Xtreme Street. I mean really, any one of you blower guys can take 50-100# out of your car, put a boot on, take the "fag bars" off and whoop everyone's butt over there. I see that Eric LaFeirre (spelling-sorry)went to Bradenton. I hope he unzips his fly over there and shows everyone what he's got.
It's the same story every year, and it is getting old fast. I am so glad that I have a true stock suspension car, and I can make it fit almost anywhere in "true street" (stock suspension) class racing.
Who knows I may be back in NMRA Drag Radial. As much as I dig doing, what I am doing now, Drag Radial is still "where it is at."
take care all and I'll see you at the races,
Jimmy Byrne

[90GT398]

Jimmy,

just for discussion and shooting the breeze sake, what do you think of nitrous combo's being allowed the Mickey T but in 2756015?

[ChrisEvans]

Jimmy-I wish you would come back also!!! You bring alot of"flavor"to the D/R class!Especially with the NOS combo-which is one thing I applaud the most-that you stayed w/the nitrous....where everyone else has"jumped ship"(me included). Are you gonna stay local & kick everyone's ass-or run XS again?

[chip provenza]

Ronny wilsons car has a 2 stage plate and went 7.79 I think it can be done.

[turbocoupe25-5]

let the nos cars run the M/T d/r and some more fiberglass. Adam L is going 8.teens and has gone 8.0s with a two stage plate from wilson.

[smallblock]

Ronny wilsons car has a 2 stage plate and went 7.79 I think it can be done.


26-2700lbs and slicks are definitely not bfg's .. i don't think m/t are the answer either. look how weak FFW is with them allowed.. maybe jimmy is onto something with the 50-50 rule .. just my 2 cents (not worth all that much).. i'd like to come play this year also but i'm far off the average going 8.70 at 3100 on m/t .. i hate being a 1st round punching bag :D

[SHOWTIME]

Ronnie Wilson's car weighs 2660. It went 1.19 60ft. Add the weight take away the 60 ft. and you will run 8.30s.......................

[jimmy byrne]

no no no no no,
don't change anything, the rules are fine the way they are, and they were fine the way they were. If the rule say's BFG's, then BFG's for everyone. 50% minimum bias on the front was just an idea that is from the old NMCA Factory Street days (1999-2001). I was just suprised that this rule was not written in from day one. That was my point.
cya,
Jimmy Byrne

yo "small block posse" dude--tell Johnny B. I say "hey."

[AMF RACING]

Ronnie went 8.20's in Orlando on 315/60/15 mickey's.

[90GT398]

Thanks for answering Jimmy and CL. :)

[smallblock]

jimmy no problem i'll pass the word ..

let me say as well i didn't say it couldn't be done with nitrous. there are a hand full of guys doing it, but only a hand full. now i don't want to look like i'm saying change the rules. so if it comes off that way my apologies. you guys put to much into your programs for that. i would like to see some nitrous cars in there thats all.

[90GT398]

i would like to see some nitrous cars in there thats all.

Me too, sure wish C.L or Jimmy get back out there or any of the past nitrous guy's, Sal Arena, Anthony Curto any of those guy's.

[bboutlaw]

I have a 408 & track 1 m2 & nx fogger 200 shot on new goodyears 325 60 15 8.30- 174 wood like to run in the D/R in nmra will it work.

[speer13]

my new nitrous engine is on the stand....... its just a shame that working with mannys car and job that I caught the turbo bug.......

[SSO2191]

To this day the fastest NMRA pass with a NOS combo is in the mid 50's. Which were not even consistant. Little ran 3 total passes in the 50's period. Evans ran 1. Jimmy ran one pass in the 60's in Chicago last year with the same set up that ran 170 mph on slicks. Not bustin your balls or anything like that just showing a point. The better a nitrous car hooks and can get the power on, also the better the mph (completely opposite of blower/turbo combos) the better they hook and get the power on usually the mph is a little lower. If anyone thinks that they can run consistant 30's with nitrous with the current rules and an occasional 20. Well I would definitly have to shake that persons hand because that is freakin amazing. Don't see that ever happening though. It is just how the combos make power. I do think that if you take NMRA DR nitrous/turbo/blower cars and put slicks on them they would all be pretty damn close. If this was a slick class I would still have nitrous but it is not. Jimmy, I remember you leaving that last race and saying how much you freakin hate those tires. It is not like the old days running 8.70's. An 8.70 nitrous car would pratically dead hook. I know Evans could almost hit it dead out of the hole and stand it on the bumper and that was before digital 7's. I see Jimmy's point though. It's not real hard to bolt a blower on and run 30's. To run 30's with a nitrous car in DR would take 10 times more time/effort/and even money!

[timneagroup]

Matt,

you sound like the kind of guy that wears leather pants:confused:

[arena]

Matt,

you sound like the kind of guy that wears leather pants:confused:
LOL

[chip provenza]

Sal are you making a come back

[EL CID]

Sal are you making a come back


if he ever gets off his "Harley" kick again?!?!?!

[arena]

HA still got the road king Oscar,Chip I have something in the works but unfortunatly not for DR that tire killed me now i think fuel injections going to kill me LOL hope to be ready for the grove.Good to be back anyway looking foward to seeing all you nutjobs again.Sal:D

[chip provenza]

I will see ya there.

[CHRIS TUTEN]

Ronny wilsons car has a 2 stage plate and went 7.79 I think it can be done.

i agree. he also went 175mph. his 60' on that pass was 1.22 and with cars now going pretty consistent mid 1.30's i dont see where a SERIOUS nitrous combo couldnt compete. i'm not saying that past attempts havent been serious, i know it costs$$$ and alot of time AND patience. just look at how long its taken Sam Vincent, he put in the time and patience (and of course $$) and now its paying off. IMO, he's proof that nitrous can compete.

[Eric LaFerriere]

Anybody or any company want to 100% sponsor a NOS DRAGRADIAL CAR.

If interested let us know it can run the ####'s just like the rest of us ...

[arena]

I would be shocked if someone could go 20's on the bfg 325.

[smallblock]

I would be shocked if someone could go 20's on the bfg 325.


that makes 2 of us. tuten you know how hard it is to compete with nitrous and stay on top or even run at the top. just doesn't seem cost effective at all (in bfg radial)or i'm sure you, little, arena, evans wouldn't have abandon nitrous in radial.. i know your a nitrous guy a heart and feel our pain. :D

[chip provenza]

Who in the past 2 years really gave it a real shot?

[arena]

Jimmy Byrne

[smallblock]

the reason i left his name off that list..

[chip provenza]

Jimmy went to 1 race last year.

[arena]

Chip I think Jimmys stuff ran 20's on slicks.If it was doable someone would be doing it IMO.I thought long and hard about it and then I started having flashbacks of passes like 10.70@157mph and said fug that and all that pedaling reeks havoc on ringlands in a NOS setup.Sal

[ChrisEvans]

Reasons why I gave up-1.motor has to be way more durable than blower or turbo motor.2.You need"Glidden"Victor heads w/every trick done to them($$$)(& matching intake)-whereas I've seen a AFR 225(out-of-box CNC'd) go 170mph.w/a Blower.3.BFG's and a 400in. motor w/NOS(all torque)just don't mix,look how well NOS combos do in slick classes(I.E Jimmy Bryne/XS)...it is just waaayyy to much bottom end to ever get to consistently work. 4.Speaking of-consistency.....in BG 04' I ran 8.56@161(NOS combo) 1-pass(& either stood up/or spun every other pass) Fast-forward to BG 05'-Blower combo was'nt even all the way figured out & ran 8.70's every-pass/& 60fts.were consistent. Enough babbling-bottom line.....The NMRA BFG D/R class is NOT- NOS friendly-and thats just the way it's gonna be for awhile....Iam NOT saying it CANNOT be done(NOS combo)-I'd love to see someone make a run at it-good luck though!!!!!:)

[EricH8450]

How about 295BFG's and a forward facing hood scoop. Local nos. cars have picked up 2 to3 tenths with a forward facing scoop. Hey it's a thought I'll see some of you at the UDR MSRA race in a few week's. If the NMRA would allow us to test some of these theory's at an actual race I would be glad to be a test mule.

[TheFoot_816]

Has anybody tried to run a big motor say a 427 or bigger with a glide and NOS? Would that work?? Are you allowed to run a Progressive Nitrous Controller ? Or do they even help or work? I know someone that is building that, it will be done in the next couple of weeks..