We Got New Rules Boys!

[Justin Burcham]

AAAAAAHHHHHHHHH! Now we can come play with you 4v guys. Isn't it going to be weird Shawn to look over at 1000ft and see the JPC sticker next to you??? Maybe even pulling on ya???:D We will see, but I'm ready! See ya at the Grove...............;)

[Shawn Johnson]

All I will say is if you guys can't get it done with cams and headers.... you need to quit......
So much for intent of the class....
Oh well it will be nice to not here any excuses when the 5.0L are beat now....
Good hunting to everyone...

[SANDMAN]

Might be a AAR sticker ya see pullin on YOU! :D

AAAAAAHHHHHHHHH! Now we can come play with you 4v guys. Isn't it going to be weird Shawn to look over at 1000ft and see the JPC sticker next to you??? Maybe even pulling on ya???:D We will see, but I'm ready! See ya at the Grove...............;)

[Justin Burcham]

Might be a AAR sticker ya see pullin on YOU!


Bring it!!!I'm game, let's get it on!!!!!!!!!!!:D

Shawn, it will be okay, I'm sure you guys will like having a little competition now. I know Ian will. Doesn't it get boring just mopping everyone up?:confused: That was a compliment.

There will be no excuses..............because there will be none needed:D That was smack talk.

The "intent" is for the NMRA to make the class fun to watch and attend. And for racers to have a chance to win-everyone of them......

[Bob Cosby]

Everyone has always had a chance to win. Everyone. Whether or not they made the choices necessary to win is something that only those that didn't are responsible for. :)

[Shawn Johnson]

Ohhh don't get me wrong I wanted a tight class and I like the competition.... I even like the rivalry stuff....
I think it is a little much for the 5.0L..... the 5.0L should be in the 30's by the second race...and they will not be as hard on parts as the 4valves....we will be breaking parts just to stay in the top five.....

The part that really gets me is.... "WHY DID WE HAVE THE 06 RULES CHANGE THEN"

Why didn't we stay with what we had and help the 5.0L get faster???!!!!!

We will all need role bars again.... the class is not running 80s... I waisted money on junk parts... for what???!!!

"THE INTENT OF THE CLASS"

What a joke.... Just made us all spend money for nothing....
IF we are going the PS cam and headers... then lets go back to the good parts and let the class run in the 20's.... That is entertainment...

[nos84gt]

I might need to get my flashers working.....LOL LOL....Anyways....it's not a Pure Street cam....it's max .480 lift w/ unlimited duration......I bet PS guys are not using .480 lift. I can't believe people still think we were not trying as hard as we can the first two races!!!! Or make the assumption we don't know what we are doing....Guess I can put the 50s back on the car, or put more gear in it....and 50s?????? Man, I can't wait till we can try out these new rules!!!!!

[hollandhotrod]

What are the new rules as far as cams go? I have a NHRA stock eliminator cam that I'm trying to sell. It has stock lift (with a 1.6 rocker) and the duration at .050 is 248 intake and 254 exhaust:eek: . Lobe separation is 112. It's a custom ground comp cams item with a cam card. Might be fun to test and I'll let it go cheap. Went 12.20's in NHRA L/S trim.

[Ian Mullane]

[QUOTE=nos84gt]I bet PS guys are not using .480 lift. QUOTE]

Close enough at .500"

It'll be interesting to see how these cars respond to cams with the weak springs you have to run. I honestly don't know.

[PURESTREET5006]

[QUOTE=nos84gt]I bet PS guys are not using .480 lift. QUOTE]

Close enough at .500"

It'll be interesting to see how these cars respond to cams with the weak springs you have to run. I honestly don't know.


Damn...Theirs a Valve spring rule too!!! :eek: I didn't see that. I'm gonna look at the rule again..That's got to be a stupid rule for valve springs.

[Ian Mullane]

I think it's 160 lb seat pressure max. I'm sure crafty racers will be able to make it work but it might take some time.

[hollandhotrod]

Where can I find a post of the rules? 160 lbs. of seat pressure should work. How about Shermans lifters in the rules?

[Shawn Johnson]

Stock lifters only...
160# spring max....

[Justin Burcham]

It won't be as easy to rev these valve spring limited engines in Factory Stock as it is in Pure Street.
You also have to remember fellas, we have unported heads, that don't flow anywhere near the air of a Pure Streeter, a looooong runner unported intake, that will shear the air at high rpm's, and 70mm tb. It's definitely not Pure Street. The intake tract and runner length will play a major role in limiting these engines to rpm efectively. Just because it rpm's under control, doesn't mean it's useful power.
Although I do feel it will gain much needed power "under the curve". It should be interesting, putting some "race" back in these racecars.

I too, am going to miss the "stock" aspect with the factory cam:( , but I like the 5.0's being competitive even more.:)

[Wayne S]

:confused:
23. Factory Stock - Exhaust
Revise 1.3a: 5.0L Pushrod-powered entries only may utilize long-tube type headers with a maximum tubing size of 1.625-inches (1-5/8) with a 3-inch maximum collector. Stepped headers are prohibited, header must use same 1.625-inch tubing from header flange through collector. Standard small-block Ford bolt-pattern header flanges are required, maximum thickness 3/8-inch. Adapter plates are prohibited. Merge-style collectors or megaphones are prohibited.

24. Factory Stock - Camshaft
Revise Section 1.18 : Aftermarket hydraulic roller camshaft with non-stock duration or lobe seperation permitted for 5.0L pushrod applications only. Camshaft maximum lobe lift is .278-inch; Minimum lobe lift is .270-inch. Maximum valve lift at the retainer not to exceed .480-inch.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Still think a 2v can hang Ian? Car that really needs cams and Lts Get sqwat:D

[denny1610]

:confused:
23. Factory Stock - Exhaust
Revise 1.3a: 5.0L Pushrod-powered entries only may utilize long-tube type headers with a maximum tubing size of 1.625-inches (1-5/8) with a 3-inch maximum collector. Stepped headers are prohibited, header must use same 1.625-inch tubing from header flange through collector. Standard small-block Ford bolt-pattern header flanges are required, maximum thickness 3/8-inch. Adapter plates are prohibited. Merge-style collectors or megaphones are prohibited.

24. Factory Stock - Camshaft
Revise Section 1.18 : Aftermarket hydraulic roller camshaft with non-stock duration or lobe seperation permitted for 5.0L pushrod applications only. Camshaft maximum lobe lift is .278-inch; Minimum lobe lift is .270-inch. Maximum valve lift at the retainer not to exceed .480-inch.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Still think a 2v can hang Ian? Car that really needs cams and Lts Get sqwat:D

show up with one and prove they (2v) need something instead of crying on here.

[Mike Galimi]

Not sure exactly, but don't Stock Eliminator cars run stock-style valve springs with .480-lift cams?

[Ian Mullane]

It won't be as easy to rev these valve spring limited engines in Factory Stock as it is in Pure Street.
You also have to remember fellas, we have unported heads, that don't flow anywhere near the air of a Pure Streeter, a looooong runner unported intake, that will shear the air at high rpm's, and 70mm tb. It's definitely not Pure Street. The intake tract and runner length will play a major role in limiting these engines to rpm efectively. Just because it rpm's under control, doesn't mean it's useful power.
Although I do feel it will gain much needed power "under the curve". It should be interesting, putting some "race" back in these racecars.

I too, am going to miss the "stock" aspect with the factory cam:( , but I like the 5.0's being competitive even more.:)

I realize these motors are going to respond very differently to cams than P/S cars. It'll be intersting to see how things shake out. I think some people getting into the class have no idea what they are in for as far as testing parts goes. I guess if they see that the 5.0 has "potential to win that might give em hope and bring more competitors in. Hope so anyway.

[Ian Mullane]

Still think a 2v can hang Ian? Car that really needs cams and Lts Get sqwat:D

Not sure. Hang, yes, this year. Dominate, not likely, but then I have always been an optomist. I like the idea of droppin 400 lbs and no gear restriction. Should be MUCH easier on parts. That could be worth it alone. I'm still trying to convince Shawn to try it but he will likely be stepping up or out after this season. We'll see where the 5.0's settle out but it might take a couple of years to get there.

[Ian Mullane]

show up with one and prove they (2v) need something instead of crying on here.

I agree 100% Denny. Be prepared to be questioned on your commitment to winning. Running a couple races and then asking for a rules change isn't going to get you very far.

[SANDMAN]

So with todays adjustment, can both 2v & 5.0 use the cams and long tubes???

[Ian Mullane]

Still think a 2v can hang Ian? Car that really needs cams and Lts Get sqwat:D

Wow, you have a genie in a bottle or sumpthin'. Guess the NMRA read your mind. This could get real interesting:cool:

[Wayne S]

Wow, you have a genie in a bottle or sumpthin'. Guess the NMRA read your mind. This could get real interesting:cool:

Now start building will yah :D

[Wayne S]

show up with one and prove they (2v) need something instead of crying on here. Your just lucky I decided not to play in the kiddy pool this year:p

[Shawn Johnson]

Your just lucky I decided not to play in the kiddy pool this year:p

Don't come play here... it's cheeper to run PS.....

[hollandhotrod]

Mike Galimi is right, we NHRA Stock Eliminator guys run .276 lobe lift cams with 254/262 deg dur. at .050 That is a pretty healthy cam and we run 175 lbs seat pressure with a single spring and damper. Not sure how well the stock lifter will handle this amount of spring pressure. We run Schubeck lifters or Shermans lifters. I believe the Shermans would work for the Factory Stock rules as they are based on stock Ford parts.

[Justin Burcham]

Nope, no Sherman's for us, factory Ford only, and yes, they check. We also have a max seat pressure of 160.:)

[AutomaticWeapon]

C & P, From the book tonight...
Base Weights:
ENGINE POWER ADDER BASE CI BASE WEIGHT...
4.6 2V None 289 2,900...
2-valve combinations with ported heads add 100 pounds...

Sooo, a 2V 4.6 can weigh 2,900# with cams and LTs?! ... Then if someone were to add ported heads, they add only an extra 100# ?!

I wanna get this straight before I get my hopes up.

Thanks for reading,
-Mike

[Wayne S]

C & P, From the book tonight...
Base Weights:
ENGINE POWER ADDER BASE CI BASE WEIGHT...
4.6 2V None 289 2,900...
2-valve combinations with ported heads add 100 pounds...

Sooo, a 2V 4.6 can weigh 2,900# with cams and LTs?! ... Then if someone were to add ported heads, they add only an extra 100# ?!

I wanna get this straight before I get my hopes up.

Thanks for reading,
-Mike

Mike from A look at the rules,, Im not sure exactly what you can port.. What ever you can or they call porting I bet is not worth 100pounds.. Keep in mind the weight is up from last year..

There is alot to take in before yah jump in heals first..

[Wayne S]

Don't come play here... it's cheeper to run PS.....

Going power adder with my car now, mainly for close to home racing.. I gata get to work on my GM G-body soon.

[Ian Mullane]

C & P, From the book tonight...
Base Weights:
ENGINE POWER ADDER BASE CI BASE WEIGHT...
4.6 2V None 289 2,900...
2-valve combinations with ported heads add 100 pounds...

Sooo, a 2V 4.6 can weigh 2,900# with cams and LTs?! ... Then if someone were to add ported heads, they add only an extra 100# ?!

I wanna get this straight before I get my hopes up.

Thanks for reading,
-Mike

Thats right. Come on out.:)

[PURESTREET5006]

I hate to say this guys. but the way this is going it looks like you'll be back to your 05 rules Before BG or the start of the 2007 NMRA season:D So i hope you guys didn't sell all your parts from 05 yet.

[Shawn Johnson]

I hate to say this guys. but the way this is going it looks like you'll be back to your 05 rules Before BG or the start of the 2007 NMRA season:D So i hope you guys didn't sell all your parts from 05 yet.

I didn't sell mine....

The 5.0L and 2valves will be in the 30s after the teams get it sorted out...
I ran in the 30s at the last race of 05 with the 05 rules...
4valve will not get to the 30s with the gear rule as is.... I don't believe.. plus we loose our heads after this season so it looks to be down hill for the 4valves.... and I'm not whining about it .... just stating what I think...

[Justin Burcham]

Added 4/20/06

28. Factory Stock - Camshaft
Delete Revision 24
Revise Section 1.18 : Aftermarket hydraulic roller camshaft with non-stock duration or lobe seperation permitted for 5.0L pushrod applications only. Maximum valve lift at the retainer not to exceed .480-inch. (checked at retainer)

This ought to save us some $$$$$$.

[jericoholic]

C & P, From the book tonight...
Base Weights:
ENGINE POWER ADDER BASE CI BASE WEIGHT...
4.6 2V None 289 2,900...
2-valve combinations with ported heads add 100 pounds...

Sooo, a 2V 4.6 can weigh 2,900# with cams and LTs?! ... Then if someone were to add ported heads, they add only an extra 100# ?!

I wanna get this straight before I get my hopes up.

Thanks for reading,
-Mike
Sure. So...you go 3.600" on the bore with a +.005" stroke; +.020" rods; flat tops w/total seal rings & titanium pins; ported SVO heads at 40cc's with 1.85/1.45 valves; custom .510/.545 cams; SVO Intake; stepped headers 1 1/2" - 1 5/8" with a 3" collector. It better run 11.30's.

Go Have Fun. :D

[nos84gt]

Better call Thom about porting the SVO heads, you can't......misprint in the rules.....only the OEM 2V heads can be ported, also you can't have stepped headers.....

[Shawn Johnson]

Better call Thom about porting the SVO heads, you can't......misprint in the rules.....only the OEM 2V heads can be ported, also you can't have stepped headers.....

According to my rule book....even the 4 valves can port thier heads...

Permitted Cylinder Head List, Parts Number: These are the only permitted cylinder heads and part numbers for competition in this category. If your cylinder head is not on this list, it is prohibited.
1) Stock Ford OEM 5.0 HO Cast Iron Cylinder Heads. (*Deduct 250#)
2) FRPP/SVO GT-40 Cast Iron Cylinder Heads
3) FRPP/SVO GT-40P Cast Iron Cylinder Heads
4) Stock Ford OEM 4.6 Cylinder Heads**
5) FRPP/SVO 4.6 2-valve**
Note: Stock factory OEM heads are those cylinder heads that are factory production line installed on production vehicles as recognized by NHRA.
**Porting permitted,



That was something I over looked..:D

[nos84gt]

Yeah!! Thats the misprint...I emailed Thom before Bradenton, he said only the OEM 2V heads is allowed to be ported...but it also says this....

1.17d) HEADS, PORTING: Prohibited. (*Porting only permitted on 4.6L Ford OEM 2-Valve '96-'04 Cylinder Heads with 100 pound weight adder.) Runners and combustion chambers must retain OEM appearance. Final acceptance at the discretion of NMRA Technical Department.


If someone shows up with 4V or SVO ported heads....???????

Jonathan