Breakage, Breakage, Breakage..

[Stephen Johnson]

When is NMRA goin to allow any clutch besides the diaphragm clutches in P/S and R/S. There is alot of carnage goin on in both of these classes, it isnt even funny. There are guys breaking G-force's left and right. I have heard of guys breaking G-foces like twigs. i know i dont run the class, but would like to someday, and I know a good friend of mine who is itching to get back into this class. I know its not the cars just making more power, look at the F/S guys......breaking 'em too.

[Damn Yankee]

Stephen, I am sure this will get more responses once everyone returns from BG. That being said, I would be totally amazed and shocked if the NMRA EVER allows anything in the cans of PS and or RS that resemble anything but a diaphragm non-adjustable clutch. Meanwhile the piles of broken transmission parts will continue to climb. Just my .02

[LSX-GTO]

Legalize C4 transmissions. ;)

[Redsnk95]

Yep

[Stephen Johnson]

Andy

You are exaclty right!!!...ttt

[teddy]

Stephen, I am sure this will get more responses once everyone returns from BG. That being said, I would be totally amazed and shocked if the NMRA EVER allows anything in the cans of PS and or RS that resemble anything but a diaphragm non-adjustable clutch. Meanwhile the piles of broken transmission parts will continue to climb. Just my .02
Just switched from the weak force to the Tremec TKO 500 and its nice going to the line not worrying about trans breakage;)

[Stephen Johnson]

Just switched from the weak force to the Tremec TKO 500 and its nice going to the line not worrying about trans breakage;)


knock on wood!!!!

[Damn Yankee]

Just switched from the weak force to the Tremec TKO 500 and its nice going to the line not worrying about trans breakage;)

Teddy, I hope it does work out for you. We twisted two output shafts in our TKO after switching from a T-5 as well. Both times we attributed the damage to the clutch not slipping enough. Again, good luck !!!

[teddy]

Teddy, I hope it does work out for you. We twisted two output shafts in our TKO after switching from a T-5 as well. Both times we attributed the damage to the clutch not slipping enough. Again, good luck !!!
With the clutch I'm running, that will not happen;) It is not aggressive by any means. Most would laugh if they knew what it was:D

[Stephen Johnson]

Teddy,

i guess you dont wanna relinquish any info on that "special" clutch :D

[teddy]

Teddy,

i guess you dont wanna relinquish any info on that "special" clutch :D
Its not special by any means, just not what you would expect in one of these cars. It is made by centerforce.

[brian@afm]

Don't blame it all on the clutch rule. These transmissions, as good as they are, were never truely meant to be abused in the way that we do. The aftermarket has gone over and above the call to make them what they are.

Did we have a trans failure this season that, IMO, cost us a race in Reading? YES. However, that trans had somewhere in the neighborhood of 280 passes on it from the previous year of which 200+ were with the same clutch. Go ask someone running a Liberty and a slipper clutch when the last time they got that kind of use out of a trans and clutch without servicing either one.

[Damn Yankee]

Don't blame it all on the clutch rule. These transmissions, as good as they are, were never truely meant to be abused in the way that we do. The aftermarket has gone over and above the call to make them what they are.

Did we have a trans failure this season that, IMO, cost us a race in Reading? YES. However, that trans had somewhere in the neighborhood of 280 passes on it from the previous year of which 200+ were with the same clutch. Go ask someone running a Liberty and a slipper clutch when the last time they got that kind of use out of a trans and clutch without servicing either one.

Brian, I do know several NHRA Stock and SuperStock Racers who routinely see 300 passes and sometimes more out of their McLeod Soft Lok adjustable clutches before the clutch disk needs replacing and the PP serviced. I am not saying the clutch rule is the sole reason for breakage of the T-5's or the Tremec boxes. However you will not convince me that an adjustable clutch or slipper clutch as you call it, WILL NOT reduce the amount of abuse or stress that a transmission see's during the launch or on some of the gear changes.

[brian@afm]

However you will not convince me that an adjustable clutch or slipper clutch as you call it, WILL NOT reduce the amount of abuse or stress that a transmission see's during the launch or on some of the gear changes.

Not trying to. Honestly, just tired of all the "change the rules for me" stuff. Is it a challenge to go against the "Jones" and do something different? Sure it is. FFW had a class that they opened up like that. The operative word is "had".

[teddy]

I honestly don't want to see an adjustable clutch allowed. It def. took time and $$$ to figure out a good reliable clutch set-up. And it is working just fine now. I've heard the early built G-Forces were beast's and lasted for 150 plus passes. But its the later built gear sets that have had the issues, I don't know just rumors from racers/builders that have had both. I think the Tremec tko 500/600 will be a more reliable box than the G-Force and it will take time for most to see that and make the switch back. And about that diagphram clutch, when is the last time the NMRA took a look to verify that it is indeed a legal clutch:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Damn Yankee]

I honestly don't want to see an adjustable clutch allowed. It def. took time and $$$ to figure out a good reliable clutch set-up. And it is working just fine now. I've heard the early built G-Forces were beast's and lasted for 150 plus passes. But its the later built gear sets that have had the issues, I don't know just rumors from racers/builders that have had both. I think the Tremec tko 500/600 will be a more reliable box than the G-Force and it will take time for most to see that and make the switch back. And about that diagphram clutch, when is the last time the NMRA took a look to verify that it is indeed a legal clutch:eek: :eek: :eek:


Well as I posted above Teddy, I hope you do get it worked out w/o any further breakage in your tranny the box.

Not trying to. Honestly, just tired of all the "change the rules for me" stuff. Is it a challenge to go against the "Jones" and do something different? Sure it is. FFW had a class that they opened up like that. The operative word is "had".

You have me confused with somebody else, unless you can show me where I have asked for a rule change. In fact what I said is there wont be a rule change in regards to the clutch rule and I would be shocked and amazed if there was.

[Stephen Johnson]

i have had my jerico and mcleod clutch in my race car for about 7-8years or more..I know i havent had in any longer than 10, and I have NEVER broken my jerico tranny. This is a 3400lbs car that makes well over 700HP and 640 ft lbs of torque. I agree with Damn Yankee, it would be alittle easier on the drivetrain if the adjustable clutch was legalized. I belive these are the weakest links in the class is the tranny breakage, because of running diapraghm clutches.

[GeneHindman]

And about that diagphram clutch, when is the last time the NMRA took a look to verify that it is indeed a legal clutch:eek: :eek: :eek:
Last season (2005) in Kansas City. They looked at mine.

[teddy]

Last season (2005) in Kansas City. They looked at mine.
Thanks for the reply, I did not know cause I wasn't at that race. How did thay look at it? Did you have to remove it? Just curious how its done so I know if thats something worth protesting in the future??

[kanepsycho]

The rebirth of an adjustable Savage Clutch!!! Whatever that means....
Wow! A Long finger clutch in Pure Street as well as Real Street.
So if Hot Street is Jr. Pro Stock what would that make Pure Street besides Jr. Hot Street????A joking question.....

A long Finger clutch would be cheaper then the dual disc stuff???? Or a Dual Disc diaphram hits hard also????

Pretty mean what the little 311 pushrods and 289 mods can do to a drivetrain!!!

[brian@afm]

Tech has taken a "peek" inside our bellhousing each time they made us pull a piston and rod.

[kdesigns]

Tech has taken a "peek" inside our bellhousing each time they made us pull a piston and rod.

Isn't that sort of like looking in your shoes by making you stick out your tongue and say "ah"? I mean, can they see inside your bellhousing from inside the block? If so, I think I've found your problem...

[brian@afm]

Can't get the pan off in the car, so, the trans comes out leaving the bellhousing to stand the shortblock up on end for them to so their inspection.

hehehe, pretty cool, huh

[LSX-GTO]

Can't get the pan off in the car, so, the trans comes out leaving the bellhousing to stand the shortblock up on end for them to so their inspection.

hehehe, pretty cool, huh

Do you think I feel bad for you guys?

"been there... done that... never going back.. :D

"C4 - C4 - C4 - C4" :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Al Papitto]

I have used a Mcleod soft lock long style clutch for the past three years. The disc started out at .280 thick. After three years the thickness is .266 and still works great. The clutch /Flywheel cost around $1000. Here is a pic of a pile of destroyed diaghaphram clutches from Brandon Alsept's P/S car and Steve Giffirds F/S 4V car .This pile came from Bradenton and Reynolds. And cost 10 times more than one Soft lock that will run for years.

http://www.modulardepot.com/clutches.jpg

So...Is the diaghaphram clutch rule to keep clutch manufacturers in business or keep cost down. What ever the case the modern stick shift cars have seriously outpowered the stock style clutches.

[brian@afm]

Look at all the pretty colors.

[LSX-GTO]

Look at all the pretty colors.

Most of the color is "green"...

Did I mention C4??? :D

[teddy]

Most of the color is "green"...

Did I mention C4??? :D
Might as well give solid lifters, Victor Jr's , motor plates. Jerico/G-force, oh wait they did that in S/W! No C-4's is my vote.

[GeneHindman]

NO RULE CHANGES Just weight changes, preferrably -100 for everybody right off the bat.

[daddyfixer]

Gene ,
Don't you mean 100# on the pushrod motors. The mods don't need it.:)

[PURESTREET5006]

100lbs off the push rod combo's would be nice:D But -50lbs off would be more realistic...You 4v guys don't need a weight break.

[nos84gt]

I have used a Mcleod soft lock long style clutch for the past three years. The disc started out at .280 thick. After three years the thickness is .266 and still works great. The clutch /Flywheel cost around $1000. Here is a pic of a pile of destroyed diaghaphram clutches from Brandon Alsept's P/S car and Steve Giffirds F/S 4V car .This pile came from Bradenton and Reynolds. And cost 10 times more than one Soft lock that will run for years.

http://www.modulardepot.com/clutches.jpg

So...Is the diaghaphram clutch rule to keep clutch manufacturers in business or keep cost down. What ever the case the modern stick shift cars have seriously outpowered the stock style clutches.


Why can't everybody show this to NMRA Tech and get there response on using a long style clutch, not a BS reason either, a legit "that makes sense" reason.....That is alot of "burnt" money laying on the floor!!!!

Jonathan

[Damn Yankee]

I have used a Mcleod soft lock long style clutch for the past three years. The disc started out at .280 thick. After three years the thickness is .266 and still works great. The clutch /Flywheel cost around $1000. Here is a pic of a pile of destroyed diaghaphram clutches from Brandon Alsept's P/S car and Steve Giffirds F/S 4V car .This pile came from Bradenton and Reynolds. And cost 10 times more than one Soft lock that will run for years.

http://www.modulardepot.com/clutches.jpg

So...Is the diaghaphram clutch rule to keep clutch manufacturers in business or keep cost down. What ever the case the modern stick shift cars have seriously outpowered the stock style clutches.

Al, a picture is worth a thousand words, or in this case is worth every bit of the $1000 you spent. I wasn't lobbying for a rule change, just trying to point out there is a better mouse trap out there which in the long haul will reduce the amount of breakage the guy's are experiencing.

[onefiine69]

I can understand not wanting to change rules as far as power goes, however if there is a way to increase durability, and mainly reduce price I.E breaking clutches/trans all the time, why not allow it? This class is supposed to be one of the entry classes to NMRA (even though the competition is very tuff and the guys running this class are doing amazing stuff within the rules given). So if its an entry class why not allow a cheaper more reliable solution? I don't know of anyone who if allowed wouldn't run it just simply to cut down on cost and time spent fixing broken drivetrain parts.

Just my 2 cents

[Damn Yankee]

I can understand not wanting to change rules as far as power goes, however if there is a way to increase durability, and mainly reduce price I.E breaking clutches/trans all the time, why not allow it? This class is supposed to be one of the entry classes to NMRA (even though the competition is very tuff and the guys running this class are doing amazing stuff within the rules given). So if its an entry class why not allow a cheaper more reliable solution? I don't know of anyone who if allowed wouldn't run it just simple to cut down on cost and time spent fixing broken drivetrain parts.

Just my 2 cents

Crazy thing is, the soft-lok style clutches were allowed in P/S from 1999 until the end of 2002. They even went from a 50lb penalty in 01 to a 100lb penalty in 02 before they were written out of the rules in 2003. Go figure

[GeneHindman]

So if its an entry class why not allow a cheaper more reliable solution? I don't know of anyone who if allowed wouldn't run it just simple to cut down on cost and time spent fixing broken drivetrain parts.

Just my 2 cents
Well, I used one clutch set-up without any freshening for a span of 2 years and 300 passes without any problem, the same clutch went back into the same combination and ran this year as well. I do not know how many passes, but that's about cheap as it can get. I only cracked 1 tooth on 1 transmission and I feel as if that is being done in the water box.

[RHecox]

I am very happy with the clutch in my car. Figured it out in Georgia and been in there ever since. Some would say mine is too agressive. I like it, and it works for me. I only broke the 3-4 selectors during competetion and broke one 3.22 transmission during testing.

[onefiine69]

Well, I used one clutch set-up without any freshening for a span of 2 years and 300 passes without any problem, the same clutch went back into the same combination and ran this year as well. I do not know how many passes, but that's about cheap as it can get. I only cracked 1 tooth on 1 transmission and I feel as if that is being done in the water box.

From what i've seen/heard you are about the only person. And i know a lot of people have tried a lot of different combo's that haven't work. Also just curious how much time and money did you spend to find that combo?

[Stephen Johnson]

From what i've seen/heard you are about the only person. And i know a lot of people have tried a lot of different combo's that haven't work. Also just curious how much time and money did you spend to find that combo?
I would like to know myself. you probably wasnt breaking as many parts as the others, but right now, its a helluva lot of breakage goin on now. The mcleod clutch wouldnt be as brutal on drivetrain as the diapraghms

[Brandon Alsept]

Here is a pic of a pile of destroyed diaphragm clutches from Brandon Alsept's P/S car and Steve Giffords F/S 4V car .This pile came from Bradenton and Reynolds. And cost 10 times more than one Soft lock that will run for years.

http://www.modulardepot.com/clutches.jpg



LOL thanks AL I had almost forgot about that pile. We got the clutch straightened out for the most part and have ran the same one since GA and had no issues. Just took a few to find a good one LOL.

[PURESTREET5006]

I'm satisfied with my clutch in my car as well. I've only changed the disc to see how well the disc grip...I don't make enough power to warrant clutch damage yet.:D

[teddy]

I'm satisfied with my clutch in my car as well. I've only changed the disc to see how well the disc grip...I don't make enough power to warrant clutch damage yet.:D
You've just jinxed yourself;)

[GeneHindman]

From what i've seen/heard you are about the only person. And i know a lot of people have tried a lot of different combo's that haven't work. Also just curious how much time and money did you spend to find that combo?
Well, I have been racing P/S since it's inception at WFC 1. I was using a Centerforce clutch from FRPP (Blue with Counter weights) at that time and continued to use it until the 2001 season. Centerforce paid me a few contingencies and decided that since I was using their product already (1 of the very few I might add), then they would like to extend their thanks for the following season. I sent my clutch in and they checked the pressures of everything and surfaced it and sent it back to me for the 2001 season. In 2002 I got a new unit from them that was lighter weight with a Lightweight Flywheel. I have used the same clutch since then, but I did send it in for a freshen up at the end of 2002. Only thing they did was surface the unit and flywheel and reline the disc. Since then, I have only changed the disc a couple of times to prevent it from holding so good. The unit has not been surfaced since then. I have a spare with me at all times, but haven't needed to use it.
So, if I had to buy it, then it would have cost me about $1000 total with the Flywheel and extra disc. And as far as the "amount of time" it took, I have never used anything else, so I guess it just took the amount of time to install it.
Since last season alone, I think their is alot of P/S racers using that same set-up now. And I believe most of them are very grateful for Centerforce coming up with that unit (LMC series).

[PURESTREET5006]

Well, I have been racing P/S since it's inception at WFC 1. I was using a Centerforce clutch from FRPP (Blue with Counter weights) at that time and continued to use it until the 2001 season. Centerforce paid me a few contingencies and decided that since I was using their product already (1 of the very few I might add), then they would like to extend their thanks for the following season. I sent my clutch in and they checked the pressures of everything and surfaced it and sent it back to me for the 2001 season. In 2002 I got a new unit from them that was lighter weight with a Lightweight Flywheel. I have used the same clutch since then, but I did send it in for a freshen up at the end of 2002. Only thing they did was surface the unit and flywheel and reline the disc. Since then, I have only changed the disc a couple of times to prevent it from holding so good. The unit has not been surfaced since then. I have a spare with me at all times, but haven't needed to use it.
So, if I had to buy it, then it would have cost me about $1000 total with the Flywheel and extra disc. And as far as the "amount of time" it took, I have never used anything else, so I guess it just took the amount of time to install it.
Since last season alone, I think their is alot of P/S racers using that same set-up now. And I believe most of them are very grateful for Centerforce coming up with that unit (LMC series).



Well Said Gene:D I like my LMC series clutch. I've used CF since i've had Mustangs and never had a problem with their product.

[GeneHindman]

From what i've seen/heard you are about the only person. And i know a lot of people have tried a lot of different combo's that haven't work. Also just curious how much time and money did you spend to find that combo?
And 1 more thing, this is a highly competitve class, as is R/S and F/S, when someone has an advantage or has found something that works better than what anyone else has, they tend to keep it on the low down.
You usually only hear about the bad.

[Stephen Johnson]

So you would have spent 1000.00 for that clutch and extra disk? Not to far off from the mcleod setup. That money could have been spent on a mcleod clutch, and no need for a spare clutch.

[RHecox]

So you would have spent 1000.00 for that clutch and extra disk? Not to far off from the mcleod setup. That money could have been spent on a mcleod clutch, and no need for a spare clutch.


So its your opinion that a McCleod is far superior to Centerforce?

Find what works for you and use it. I use a diaphram clutch in my car and Have had no troubles from it at all. Heads up racing costs money. if it isnt a clutch it will be something else. There is a reason Tremec doesnt pay contingency for a T5 in the class.

[Stephen Johnson]

So its your opinion that a McCleod is far superior to Centerforce?

Find what works for you and use it. I use a diaphram clutch in my car and Have had no troubles from it at all. Heads up racing costs money. if it isnt a clutch it will be something else. There is a reason Tremec doesnt pay contingency for a T5 in the class.
Yes I do think the mcleod is far superior than CF. I am not goin to argue on here about what clutch is better, but if you look at what someone posted earlier, S/SS'er use this clutch........and are settin records and winning races. If the CF or any diapraghm clutch was that good, then you would see it in S/SS class racing, Comp Elim or Pro Stock. I am sorry if this is being taken the wrong way, i just think the reasoning by all the carnage is because of non-adjustable clutches.

[Brandon Alsept]

Well most of the guys using a Softlok are also using clutch less boxes. They need a more adjustable clutch to get down the track.

Would people use the soft lok if we could in P/S, most likely yes. But, we can't so we all use what we find works with our car and stick with it;)

[vrtical]

This sounds like a discussion that happened in SW a couple of years ago when they got to a certain ET, look what happend to that class. I have enough issues with $2600 transmissions, I don't wanna see 5k trans allowed LOL. Over the past couple of years there has been plenty of data from RS/PS to show that diapraghm clutches / trans can support what is being thrown at them, you just need to dial in what will live. Too aggressive might net you some gains, but you have to be willing to pay the price.

[GeneHindman]

Yes I do think the mcleod is far superior than CF. I am not goin to argue on here about what clutch is better.You wanted to argue about the Spec clutch being far more superior a few months ago and now your **** keeps breaking.,Figure that one out. but if you look at what someone posted earlier, S/SS'er use this clutch........and are settin records and winning races. If the CF or any diapraghm clutch was that good, then you would see it in S/SS class racing, Comp Elim or Pro Stock. I am sorry if this is being taken the wrong way, i just think the reasoning by all the carnage is because of non-adjustable clutches.We/us are setting records with diaphram clutches also... big deal. I will agree that the McLeod has more adjustablility than the diaphram clutches, but that doesn't make it better. You can manipulate the track better with one and it will save parts compared to the stronger holding clutches.
So you would have spent 1000.00 for that clutch and extra disk? Not to far off from the mcleod setup. That money could have been spent on a mcleod clutch, and no need for a spare clutch..
Maybe you only heard what you wanted to hear... I said Flywheel and extra disc included. I seriously doubt you can get a 7075 Aluminum flywheel and a McLeod Soft-loc set-up for anywhere close to that. You can't even get a 6061 Aluminum flywheel with that set-up for close to a $1000.
But since you DO want to argue about it.... Just remember that I said my first clutch that I used for several years also was a Centerforce from FRPP. It cost less than $300.
Like I said earlier, the trans breakages are probably coming from the water box mostly. Just ask the guys what gear they broke and what gear they do their burnout in and I bet they match most of the time. That grab when they roll out of the box is hard on trans. When they shift to that gear going down the track, it finishes it off.

[Stephen Johnson]

You wanted to argue about the Spec clutch being far more superior a few months ago and now your **** keeps breaking.,Figure that one out.We/us are setting records with diaphram clutches also... big deal. I will agree that the McLeod has more adjustablility than the diaphram clutches, but that doesn't make it better. You can manipulate the track better with one and it will save parts compared to the stronger holding clutches.

Maybe you only heard what you wanted to hear... I said Flywheel and extra disc included. I seriously doubt you can get a 7075 Aluminum flywheel and a McLeod Soft-loc set-up for anywhere close to that. You can't even get a 6061 Aluminum flywheel with that set-up for close to a $1000.
But since you DO want to argue about it.... Just remember that I said my first clutch that I used for several years also was a Centerforce from FRPP. It cost less than $300.
Like I said earlier, the trans breakages are probably coming from the water box mostly. Just ask the guys what gear they broke and what gear they do their burnout in and I bet they match most of the time. That grab when they roll out of the box is hard on trans. When they shift to that gear going down the track, it finishes it off.



Gene,

Do you take everything and try to make an arguement out of it??? I have noticed all your posts end up that way. Its ok man.....geez. Yes I was breaking parts, but I can solve that by goin with the mcleod clutch, and i will. You are telling me a better tuning adjustability isnt better......you're too funny. My SS'er has gotten quicker and more reliable since we went to the Soft-loc. oh yea, we dont pay nowhere near that price and this is for a BBF far more expensive in parts compared to SBF. I guess the reason why the reason why trannys are breaking in the water is because when tires do grab, all that PRESSURE is shocking the drivetrain, or as you say goin down the track, it finishes it off. I never said, Spec was "far" superior, but yea i did figure it out...... good luck with your next arguement!!!!


Brandon

Our trannys are clutch assisted, and there are many that use the soft loc with the tranny. S/SS cant use clutchless trannys. I respect that you have to use what the rules say, I was just hoping to help out with some lobbying for a better tuning window in the bellhousing to help out all the breakage. I hate to see anyone breaking anything.

[Brandon Alsept]

Brandon

Our trannys are clutch assisted, and there are many that use the soft loc with the tranny. S/SS cant use clutchless trannys. I respect that you have to use what the rules say, I was just hoping to help out with some lobbying for a better tuning window in the bellhousing to help out all the breakage. I hate to see anyone breaking anything.


No biggie, I thought you guys could use clutchless stuff. Like I said if we could use it I am sure most would.

[GeneHindman]

Gene,

Do you take everything and try to make an arguement out of it??? I have noticed all your posts end up that way.
You're right... I usually don't say anything at all when someone is speaking the truth. No need to correct them right?
Only when someone tries to feed the whole internet world a line of BS... Someone needs to step up and tell the facts.

By the way there hero, Arguing takes two people. Stating facts could only take 1 person.

[GeneHindman]

I guess the reason why the reason why trannys are breaking in the water is because when tires do grab, all that PRESSURE is shocking the drivetrain, or as you say goin down the track, it finishes it off.
And I guess while I'm at it, Explain to me what pressures a clutch should have in the water box? And how much % you should be slipping when exiting the water? Then explain to me how you could slip it coming out of the water, but not down the track? Surely, you don't do your burnouts 2000 RPM's less than where you turn the engine? Then tell me what you would do with all that HEAT you've just built up in the clutch?
Then maybe while you're at it, explain to me why the "Better" trans hold-up better while using the Soft-Loc unit. Maybe you know the differences in widths and thicknesses of the gears, or maybe it's because the ratios are tighter than the ones we are allowed to use?
I'm Asking....

[Stephen Johnson]

I have just be informed by a couple of people, that you are always right!!! So no need for me to waste my breathe. Have a good evening Gene:)

[Damn Yankee]

Anbody know what clutch Ron Andersons been so successful with ? Ron has always been at or near the top of the P/S field. His customary 1st to 2nd gear changes with the front wheels still high in the air surely puts his drivetrain to the test

[teddy]

Anbody know what clutch Ron Andersons been so successful with ? Ron has always been at or near the top of the P/S field. His customary 1st to 2nd gear changes with the front wheels still high in the air surely puts his drivetrain to the test
Do you think you would get an honest anwser to that question?;)

[LSX-GTO]

Why is everyone so scared of the C4????

;)

[Smav347]

Well Said Gene:D I like my LMC series clutch. I've used CF since i've had Mustangs and never had a problem with their product.

Me either, but my Mustang only ran 11s.:D I ran it for 30 passes on a 150 shot at 6000, I did like it though.

[GeneHindman]

Anbody know what clutch Ron Andersons been so successful with ? Ron has always been at or near the top of the P/S field. His customary 1st to 2nd gear changes with the front wheels still high in the air surely puts his drivetrain to the test
He told me once what it was, said he had in his car for several years. I think he changed to a new one of the same clutch last season and has been using it since also. I'm pretty sure he told me it was a diaphram 10.5". I could be wrong though.

Seriously though, It not my place to answer it, but if anyone wanted to try and remember back, he used to run a sticker on the car of a certain clutch manufacturer/distributor.

[GeneHindman]

I have just be informed by a couple of people, that you are always right!!! So no need for me to waste my breathe. Have a good evening Gene:)
Right about what? I was asking you a question there smart guy.

[LSX-GTO]

It's definitely the start of the winter season of bench racing! :D

[teddy]

Seriously though, It not my place to answer it, but if anyone wanted to try and remember back, he used to run a sticker on the car of a certain clutch manufacturer/distributor.
Clutch Masters!?

[GeneHindman]

It's definitely the start of the winter season of bench racing! :D
Quite amusing isn't it!
Clutch Masters!?
I see Teddy's memory isn't too shabby either!

[teddy]

I see Teddy's memory isn't too shabby either!
I don't forget much. May not say anything about a topic/subject but I don't forget it;) Know anyone else like that Gene?:D

[Stephen Johnson]

seems like I remember seeing that myself. I have heard of some pressure plates being shimmed, to take some pressure off the pressure plate some. As in the PP not being as close to the flywheel so it would not be so aggressive!!!

[coupe]

subscribing late.

[Stephen Johnson]

no comment on this huh???? Maybe everyone is getting geared up for next year already!!!!

[coupe]

I will comment on Ed Curtis jumping into a thread about clutches. :D lol.

[LSX-GTO]

I will comment on Ed Curtis jumping into a thread about clutches. :D lol.

C4's have clutches too!

[Scotty B]

What is it that fails on the diaphragm clutches? They are a pretty simple design with few parts. Just curious.

[69Cobra]

I know you guys can't run the long style pp but there is no doubt in my mind that is a better set up. If I was running the class I would fight very hard for this to be passed.

I personally run a Advanced Clutches clutch check out there web site at

www.advancedclutches.com

Also check out the United Manual Transmission Racers web site for all you die hard stick guys out there.

www.umtrdragrace.com

[Stephen Johnson]

I know you guys can't run the long style pp but there is no doubt in my mind that is a better set up. If I was running the class I would fight very hard for this to be passed.

I personally run a Advanced Clutches clutch check out there web site at

www.advancedclutches.com

Also check out the United Manual Transmission Racers web site for all you die hard stick guys out there.

www.umtrdragrace.com



Its already been tried!! A former P/S'er tried to get them to drop the weight off of the adjustable clutch and it was finally dropped from the class. The way the class has gone, I dont see why there was weight put on this clutch. The diapragm clutches are basically set up to slip now.......