2007 SSO Preliminary Rules Released!!

[Thom Bates]

My Earplugs are in and my blinders are on. Let the bashing begin!

Seriously though, everyone has until Dec 31 2006 to make WRITTEN rules change submissions. If you don't like what you see and don't send in an email...... I don't wnat to hear any complaints during the race season!

Thom
go here (http://www.nmraracing.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58393)

[manyponies]

Thom, How about adding a weight break for the supercharger cars like the turbo cars have had in the past and current rules for a 360" or smaller engine. Also a weight break on all forced induction entries without an intercooler like drag radial (200#).

[quick351]

I 2nd the 360ci rule!!

[regulatorracing]

for sure need a weight break for the 360 and under combo's.

[1badlx]

I think we need a 98mm Turbo for 365 and smaller engines. all of the blower guys are building 440 plus engines and feeding them with blowers that will make 40+ pounds of boost. I thank you for the 94mm but that is only worth about 70hp. The blower guys can make about 2000 Hp where we are limited to 1600 and are only 100 lbs lighter something has to give.

Carlo C.

[ChrisEvans]

Just wondering-what(Capability) will the 91mm/ 360 motor run @ 2900lbs.?
Is that more of a weight break than last year...or NO?

[sam sso2077]

Didn't you guys catch the 200lb break for the smaller blowers? I assume the diminions given are for a F2, I would think that 400-440" engine with a F2 @3000lbs would be the combo to try.

Someone from MI went 7.40@ like 188 with a 355" TFS highport heads an F2 blower at 3000lbs on taller 29.5 x 10.5" tires. It was in great air in all, but still damn impressive for a small engine with less blower abd JUST TFS highports.:eek:

One would think the same F2 at the same 3000lbs on a larger 427" with much better Yates/Neal/B.T. heads would be faster, right?:confused: ;)

Oh, and Thom don't forget the carbon doors so I can get to 2550 with the cast manifold, thanks.

[331cobra]

Just wondering-what(Capability) will the 91mm/ 360 motor run @ 2900lbs.?
Is that more of a weight break than last year...or NO?

Chris, I think the 360" 91mm combo @ 2900lbs is unchanged from last year. It was 3000lbs at the start of 06 but after the rules revisions mid season it was reduced down to 2,900. I think Halfacre went a few 7.50's in excellent air.

[sso2028]

i personally like all the new rules, everything looks like it will be very close. all three combos have already been 7.50's, with a few exceptions in the high 40's in great conditions.

[1badlx]

Guys,
I promise you the cars with the big cubic inch engines and big blowers will go low 50's in bad weather and 40's or better in just decent air. That just is not gonna happen with a 94mm and a 365" inch engine at 3100 lbs.

[Draggin3]

Someone from MI went 7.40@ like 188 with a 355" TFS highport heads an F2 blower at 3000lbs on taller 29.5 x 10.5" tires. It was in great air in all, but still damn impressive for a small engine with less blower abd JUST TFS highports.:eek:
hey Sam, just look up. one of the guys that posted before you is who ran the 7.40. :D i was sitting in the stands when he did it and that pass was off the hook. it was about 50 degrees and the track was hooking hard.

[Draggin3]

by the way the tire was a 29W.

[sam sso2077]

Chris, I think the 360" 91mm combo @ 2900lbs is unchanged from last year. It was 3000lbs at the start of 06 but after the rules revisions mid season it was reduced down to 2,900. I think Halfacre went a few 7.50's in excellent air.

John, Halfacre ran 7.53-7.55 at Martin MI and was still 2950-2960lbs, I saw the scales after he beat me, and it was not excellent air. It was 2800DA at MI this past year.

[sam sso2077]

I 2nd the 360ci rule!!

I see you made a couple of replys, then I guess deleted them as they are not one here, but I received them on my e-mail notifcation of new post.

I just posted because thought maybe No one had seen the 200lb break for smaller blowers. I assume you were the guy that went the 7.40 with the F2 with 355" Highport engine. I said it was in great air, everywhere I saw something about it said you where on 29.5 x 10.5 non W tires ,if you were on W tires, then you would slow down a bit . But at the same time I have been a 7.49 in testing in end of 2005, and it was also at night (cool track) and 56 degrees outside, but everyone thinks I could run 40's at will this past season, and never did.

Go sniff some nitorus??? kiss my @$$

[331cobra]

John, Halfacre ran 7.53-7.55 at Martin MI and was still 2950-2960lbs, I saw the scales after he beat me, and it was not excellent air. It was 2800DA at MI this past year.

What I meant was that it was not hot & greasy when he ran that. Since you ran him what was his 60' on that pass? My guess is that is was a mid 1.20. What happened to him later in the day when the sun was out & the track got hot & greasy? ? He spun the tires. A 91mm combo at 2900 will run 50's when the track is great and will alllow mid/low 1.20 60 times.

The top blower cars can 60' around 1.30 and go 50's in any conditions. That is backwards from what it should be.

[sam sso2077]

What I meant was that it was not hot & greasy when he ran that. Since you ran him what was his 60' on that pass? My guess is that is was a mid 1.20. What happened to him later in the day when the sun was out & the track got hot & greasy? ? He spun the tires. A 91mm combo at 2900 will run 50's when the track is great and will alllow mid/low 1.20 60 times.

The top blower cars can 60' around 1.30 and go 50's in any conditions. That is backwards from what it should be.

If I remember right it was amid 1.20 60, first time I saw a SSO trubo car actually 60' decent. But it was 87+ degrees outside and the track was hot & slick and it was pretty shitty air too, close to 3000' DA, and track temp was 115-120 degrees. He ran as quick as urist that weekend in the same hot, slick conditions.

You racing SSO in 2007? saw your 25.2 vert, why did they cut the roof off? we didn't on mine and bars up up into the headliner. good look, looks pretty good.

[331cobra]

If he 60' a low 1.20 that is phenomenal for a turbo car. Thats why he went a 7.50. The problem is you wont do it very consistantly and he eventually spun the tires. I believe the same thing happened to him at Columbus.

When a turbo car has to rely on having a better 60' than a blower car just to run the same et then he has no chance of competing on a regular basis.

Why do you think Manny B stopped running? He was tired of having to rely on perfect lights to win.

Thanks for the compliments on the car. I'm going to run dr one more year. I am thinking of coming to SSO in 08.

[sso2028]

Guys,
I promise you the cars with the big cubic inch engines and big blowers will go low 50's in bad weather and 40's or better in just decent air. That just is not gonna happen with a 94mm and a 365" inch engine at 3100 lbs.

no doubt, but you can't stop technology & progress every year the bar gets raised constantly due to better parts being available mainly being cylinder head development. so unfortunately alot of us including myself have to take a step back catch our breath and totally revamp our race program and then step back up to the plate with loaded guns in order to remain competitive and if your not willing to do this then sso is not the class that you belong racing in, sad but thats the truth. as much as i'd love to be racing in bradenton this season opener:cool: i will only be a spectator, but after that look out there may be a new sherriff in town and he's aimin to stay at the top for a while!:D ;)

as far as the 94mm deal at 3100lbs this combo has a better shot at being more competitve with the blowers than a small block nos ride does. manny b ran 50's with a 91mm a few seasons ago maybe not consistantly but he did it and with all the traction aids that are legal today its just a matter of time before some one really gets it down.but i say leave the rules as they be and if the turbos can'tkeep it close then make a rule adjustment as needed in the middle of the season if need be.

[Draggin3]

I see you made a couple of replys, then I guess deleted them as they are not one here, but I received them on my e-mail notifcation of new post.

I just posted because thought maybe No one had seen the 200lb break for smaller blowers. I assume you were the guy that went the 7.40 with the F2 with 355" Highport engine. I said it was in great air, everywhere I saw something about it said you where on 29.5 x 10.5 non W tires ,if you were on W tires, then you would slow down a bit . But at the same time I have been a 7.49 in testing in end of 2005, and it was also at night (cool track) and 56 degrees outside, but everyone thinks I could run 40's at will this past season, and never did.

Go sniff some nitorus??? kiss my @$$

Hey Sam, the guy who ran the 7.40 goes by regulator racing and is cool as hell. he goes by Junior and is a lot of fun. He'll be a great addition to sso.

[sso2028]

[QUOTE=331cobra]If he 60' a low 1.20 that is phenomenal for a turbo car. Thats why he went a 7.50. The problem is you wont do it very consistantly and he eventually spun the tires. I believe the same thing happened to him at Columbus.

When a turbo car has to rely on having a better 60' than a blower car just to run the same et then he has no chance of competing on a regular basis.

just curious if a turbo car has to get a better 60 than a blower car to be competitive, then what do you think a small block nos combo has to rely on in the 60? I'M SURE SAM WILL GLADLY TAKE OVER FROM HERE!!! i know what it takes and so does sam, been there done that!

[331cobra]

I agree 100%.......but a lighter NOS car generally will out 60' a blower or turbo combination very easily. Its the nature of the beast. Just like blower cars will generally out 60' turbo cars.

If Sam could 60' 1.25 & run 7.50 he could do it all day long on any track in any conditions. Unfortunately he has to 60' much better than that to be competitive.

[sam sso2077]

If he 60' a low 1.20 that is phenomenal for a turbo car. Thats why he went a 7.50. The problem is you wont do it very consistantly and he eventually spun the tires. I believe the same thing happened to him at Columbus.

When a turbo car has to rely on having a better 60' than a blower car just to run the same et then he has no chance of competing on a regular basis.

Why do you think Manny B stopped running? He was tired of having to rely on perfect lights to win.

Thanks for the compliments on the car. I'm going to run dr one more year. I am thinking of coming to SSO in 08.


I think that all combo's in the class should have to rely on their 60' to make a good pass and have to have a low to mid 1.20 60' to run high 40's or low 50's, Hell I have too, or i'm not even competetive.

THe rules allow the blower/turbo cars to make big power ( blowers more so) where thay can 60' sluggish 1.30-1.34 60's and still run high 40's, and 50's, where as a small block nitrous car has to be on his A game and 60' 1.15-1.20 every pass or he is beat plain and simple. So i'm at risk every pass on blowing the tires of and loosing, where as the forced inducted cars can leave soft, pretty much guarantee a 7.50 every time with little risk of spinning. So see I don't have the luxury of leaving soft, so why should the turbo/blowers get too like they have had for so many years.

[sso2028]

I think that all combo's in the class should have to rely on their 60' to make a good pass and have to have a low to mid 1.20 60' to run high 40's or low 50's, Hell I have too, or i'm not even competetive.

THe rules allow the blower/turbo cars to make big power ( blowers more so) where thay can 60' sluggish 1.30-1.34 60's and still run high 40's, and 50's, where as a small block nitrous car has to be on his A game and 60' 1.15-1.20 every pass or he is beat plain and simple. So i'm at risk every pass on blowing the tires of and loosing, where as the forced inducted cars can leave soft, pretty much guarantee a 7.50 every time with little risk of spinning. So see I don't have the luxury of leaving soft, so why should the turbo/blowers get too like they have had for so many years.

couldn't have said it better myself, sam knew you'd chime in on that one!:D

[radialcoupe]

Hey Sam, the guy who ran the 7.40 goes by regulator racing and is cool as hell. he goes by Junior and is a lot of fun. He'll be a great addition to sso.

i agree trace, tho i havent met junior. ive seen him on some other boards, and seems to be a laid back kinda guy just wanting to go fast.


chris

[sam sso2077]

I agree 100%.......but a lighter NOS car generally will out 60' a blower or turbo combination very easily. Its the nature of the beast. Just like blower cars will generally out 60' turbo cars.

If Sam could 60' 1.25 & run 7.50 he could do it all day long on any track in any conditions. Unfortunately he has to 60' much better than that to be competitive.

Don't give that " because i'm lighter crap" because i've raced at 2900lbs in some 1/8 mile races ,still went 1.18-1.20 60's, but it slowed down the 1/4 a bunch.

Look at Lynch vs. BG on 33w tires. Lynch is 600lbs+ heavier ,and 60's within 2 hundreds on Billy. Billy is ussually 1.06-1.08 and seen Lynch in the 1.08-1.10.

Maybe because I spraying 350hp off the line nad the other 300 is on before the 60' clocks on most tracks, and on by 1.4 sec on the slicker tracks.

But for 2007, think i'll try Burton's approach and run three foggers like 300+150+200hp maybe i'll be more consistant on the hot slick track, wouldn't that be nice for a change. and not breaking cranks, lifters, or pistons everyother race.

[331cobra]

I think that all combo's in the class should have to rely on their 60' to make a good pass and have to have a low to mid 1.20 60' to run high 40's or low 50's, Hell I have too, or i'm not even competetive.

THe rules allow the blower/turbo cars to make big power ( blowers more so) where thay can 60' sluggish 1.30-1.34 60's and still run high 40's, and 50's, where as a small block nitrous car has to be on his A game and 60' 1.15-1.20 every pass or he is beat plain and simple. So i'm at risk every pass on blowing the tires of and loosing, where as the forced inducted cars can leave soft, pretty much guarantee a 7.50 every time with little risk of spinning. So see I don't have the luxury of leaving soft, so why should the turbo/blowers get too like they have had for so many years.

Sam, I agree all combinations should have to 60 their best (for thier combination) to run high 40's low 50's......but thier best is not going to be the same across the board. Surely you dont expect a turbo car to 60' a 1.15 to run a low 50. If a turbo car cuts a 1.34 like you state in the above post I guarantee he wont run anything in the 50's and probably will run a mid/high 7.60 Heck, the turbo cars barely run more mph than you.

[331cobra]

Look at Lynch vs. BG on 33w tires. Lynch is 600lbs+ heavier ,and 60's within 2 hundreds on Billy. Billy is ussually 1.06-1.08 and seen Lynch in the 1.08-1.10.


Come on now Sam, do you honestly think Lynch will 60' those numbers in the summer heat?

[sam sso2077]

Hey Sam, the guy who ran the 7.40 goes by regulator racing and is cool as hell. he goes by Junior and is a lot of fun. He'll be a great addition to sso.

It was " quick351 that did the replys, then deleted them, i'll e-mail them to ya if you give me your e-mail addy.

Look forward to meeting Junior.

[sam sso2077]

Sam, I agree all combinations should have to 60 their best (for thier combination) to run high 40's low 50's......but thier best is not going to be the same across the board. Surely you dont expect a turbo car to 60' a 1.15 to run a low 50. If a turbo car cuts a 1.34 like you state in the above post I guarantee he wont run anything in the 50's and probably will run a mid/high 7.60 Heck, the turbo cars barely run more mph than you.

No not a 1.15 but a 2900lb turbo car should be able to go low 1.20's. I remember Manny running a 7.58 or 59 at Reynolds with alow 1.30 60's, if that was a better say 1.22, that should be a7.49-52. I know what ever I gain in 60' i'll almost double that gain at the 1/4. atleast alway 1.5 gain at the least.

Manny at WFC 7.37 pass, I saw his slip, he had a 1.23 or 1.24 60', 4.84 in the 1/8
@005 right before the NMRA World finals when I went the 7.49 in testing, I went 1.155 , 3.184 , 4.846@149 and the 7.492@185

This past spring right before WFC9, in NMRA trim testing went 1.149, 3.164, 4.813 @149.4

Now at Joliet in the 4000DA in the heat I did gi 7.50 on a slick track, 1.21 60 on the 7.56@183.6 and a 1.26 on the 7.58@186 pass, this was on the 3 stages, 350-225-225hp and even wit h3 degrees total timing, still was eating itself alive, after those two runs it would only run a 7.67 in the semi's 6 good cylinders and theother two pumped about 100psi of cylinder press. Granted I didn't have much test time like that because when I got home from MI, went testing the next sunday just like from MI on 2 stage , broke a lifter whci took out the piston. got it fixed by next weekend, hooked up plate for 3rd stage, went to Beechbend to test tuesdaynight with 3 stages, pinched a ring land on 2nd pass, pulled engine wensday morning ,replaced piston, installed engine thursday got finished that afternoon, drove allnight just to make Joliet.

[sam sso2077]

Come on now Sam, do you honestly think Lynch will 60' those numbers in the summer heat?

Maybe not, but I know it will hurt myself a lot more than the 1.30 60 foot'n forced inducted cars.

What do you 60' on D/R's with your turbo, seems like I saw it was slower than the blower cars? and you're 75lbs heavier?

[zoop]

[QUOTE=sam sso2077]I just posted because thought maybe No one had seen the 200lb break for smaller blowers. I assume you were the guy that went the 7.40 with the F2 with 355" Highport engine. I said it was in great air, everywhere I saw something about it said you where on 29.5 x 10.5 non W tires ,if you were on W tires, then you would slow down a bit . But at the same time I have been a 7.49 in testing in end of 2005, and it was also at night (cool track) and 56 degrees outside, but everyone thinks I could run 40's at will this past season, and never did.


Hey Sam, Junior's had a CCW F2 in his car at that race. And yes it was with taller tires and very good conditions. He is the King of the F2's to date with both types of blowers.. Zoop

[331cobra]

Maybe not, but I know it will hurt myself a lot more than the 1.30 60 foot'n forced inducted cars.

What do you 60' on D/R's with your turbo, seems like I saw it was slower than the blower cars? and you're 75lbs heavier?


My best 60' of the year was 1.38-1.39. I did that at Bradenton, Joliet & BG. At the rest of the tracks I probably averaged 1.42-1.44 For some reason at MI I couldnt do any better than high 1.4s.

I would say my 60' times are probably .05 slower on average than the blower cars on good tracks and a little more on bad ones. Its not the weight.....we all weight within 75lbs of each other. Its the nature of the power adder and the differences in how they work especially on bfg radials. Unless you have run one you wont understand........its too easy just to say work on your suspension. I hear it all the time.

[gnklr50]

My best 60' of the year was 1.38-1.39. I did that at Bradenton, Joliet & BG. At the rest of the tracks I probably averaged 1.42-1.44 For some reason at MI I couldnt do any better than high 1.4s.

I would say my 60' times are probably .05 slower on average than the blower cars on good tracks and a little more on bad ones. Its not the weight.....we all weight within 75lbs of each other. Its the nature of the power adder and the differences in how they work especially on bfg radials. Unless you have run one you wont understand........its too easy just to say work on your suspension. I hear it all the time.

hey, work on your suspension :)

[331cobra]

:d :d :d :d :d

[sam sso2077]

My best 60' of the year was 1.38-1.39. I did that at Bradenton, Joliet & BG. At the rest of the tracks I probably averaged 1.42-1.44 For some reason at MI I couldnt do any better than high 1.4s.

I would say my 60' times are probably .05 slower on average than the blower cars on good tracks and a little more on bad ones. Its not the weight.....we all weight within 75lbs of each other. Its the nature of the power adder and the differences in how they work especially on bfg radials. Unless you have run one you wont understand........its too easy just to say work on your suspension. I hear it all the time.

Not that it's this simple John, but can't you make more off theline by increasing boost with the waste gate?

Not sure if you are allowed the CO2 bottles like SSO, but they can certainly make enough power to blow the tires off at the starting line, so one would think they could back it down a touch or so, and leave with enough power to still 60' a low 20, but instead, they set back on their cushy 1.30 60's then want more power so they can run 7.40's and still only have to 60' a 1.28-1.32 when they already run 190mph. not saying they should go a 1.15, but allowing the forced inducted cars to make the BIG power to run high 40 to mid 50 with sorry ass 1.30+ 60's is ********. If I can can go a 1.18 @ 2900lbs, then there is no reason a turbo car at 2900 can't do atleast 1.20 flat 60's or a blower car 1.22-1.25 even at there weight. I know Billy L went a low 1.20 60' on one of his good passes which help make his pass good.

i know i'm lighter and nitrous hit's it's brunt force off the line. but I should not have to out 60's the forced inducted cars 1 1/2 tenths just to run withthem because they are so over powered in our class.

My best wo tracks where Bradenton and B.G. had I not broke my output shaft in glide saturady night. Here i am a lowly 2600lb 1350 Hp nitrous small block car and twist my 4340 chromoly output shaft into, when Turbo/Blower cars with 300-500 more HP and 300-500lbs heavier ARE NOT breaking their output shaft, it tells me how hard they push the envelope off the line, not very hard.

[lightningblue02]

Sam I have broke 3 input shafts this year. There is a ton of parity in the class. Blower, turbo and both nitrous combos have all gone low .50's I think they should let you have 50 lbs but other than that leave the rules alone. Look how close we all were all year. Now if you wouldn't of had all the problems you had at BG and Halfacre was there all the combos would have gone upper .40's or really low .50's.
A.J. Powell

[mike rousch]

Sam I have broke 3 input shafts this year. There is a ton of parity in the class. Blower, turbo and both nitrous combos have all gone low .50's I think they should let you have 50 lbs but other than that leave the rules alone. Look how close we all were all year. Now if you wouldn't of had all the problems you had at BG and Halfacre was there all the combos would have gone upper .40's or really low .50's.
A.J. Powell

agreed!!!

[lightningblue02]

Sam I have one more question for you. If they give you the sheetmetal intake and 2 carbs what will that do for you realisticly? I'm not a nitrous guy but I thought that the more air and the more fuel you can give it the more nitrous you can stuff in it and odviously the faster you go right? I'm not trying to be a jerk but you hauled ass this year and granted you have been at your combo along time but you were pretty consistent this year and hopefully you will be racing again this year against us.
A.J. Powell

[sam sso2077]

Sam I have broke 3 input shafts this year. There is a ton of parity in the class. Blower, turbo and both nitrous combos have all gone low .50's I think they should let you have 50 lbs but other than that leave the rules alone. Look how close we all were all year. Now if you wouldn't of had all the problems you had at BG and Halfacre was there all the combos would have gone upper .40's or really low .50's.
A.J. Powell

Broke one of them also. I'm not say you can just throw on a blower and go fast instantly, but like you said been doing my deal for for 6 years now, and new guys with blowers like you and Phil Hines come in and are already major players and there isn't near the learning curve and parts destruction with the blower , vs. a nitorus small block. And with the 196mph Trap speeds from blowers, there is 7.30's in there guaranteed. just a matter of time.

[mike rousch]

Broke one of them also. I'm not say you can just throw on a blower and go fast instantly, but like you said been doing my deal for for 6 years now, and new guys with blowers like you and Phil Hines come in and are already major players and there isn't near the learning curve and parts destruction with the blower , vs. a nitorus small block. And with the 196mph Trap speeds from blowers, there is 7.30's in there guaranteed. just a matter of time.

your not going to 60 well enough to go 30's at 3150, i mean 3200 now. the rules are fine and everyone is within 100's of eachother. leave the rules the way they are

[sam sso2077]

Sam I have one more question for you. If they give you the sheetmetal intake and 2 carbs what will that do for you realisticly? I'm not a nitrous guy but I thought that the more air and the more fuel you can give it the more nitrous you can stuff in it and odviously the faster you go right? I'm not trying to be a jerk but you hauled ass this year and granted you have been at your combo along time but you were pretty consistent this year and hopefully you will be racing again this year against us.
A.J. Powell

I could maybe for change run some 40's and low to mid 50's in the heat withought having pushing it off the line so hard and takeless chance of spinning tire every other pass, and maybe not lean quite as hard to to run the #'s and not break it every damn race. And lastly the it would have better distribution which should hopfuly be easier on parts too.
And not to take any thing away from you AJ, but think I saw you engine ata 370-380 cubic inch, sure if you had a 420-440" like some ofthe faster blower cars, it would help you considerably, and i think you said you were 70-80lbs over weight too.

Take the fellow from Mi with the 355" TFS highport head engine with a reverse F2 at 3030lbs , I know it was in killer air but a 7.40@188, and Urist only goes a 7.46 at 130lbs heavier in still real good air, with 70 more cubes and bigger blower and bigger, beter heads.
That tells everyone that if a F2 can do that in great conditions, a 430" F3 w/ Yates/Neal heads at 130lbs heavier should go a good tenth faster.

I know we are pick our posion and except that, but I'll will stand up for believe.

Still loveya

[sam sso2077]

your not going to 60 well enough to go 30's at 3150, i mean 3200 now. the rules are fine and everyone is within 100's of eachother. leave the rules the way they are

Really sure about that, Billy L went a 1.23 , on one of his low or mid 50 runs, yet other 60' 1.30's and still run low 50's and 40'.

Bet no one ever thought you can 60' a 1.13 on 28 x 10.5 tires either ,but I did.

You just have to push the envelope, and I have to every single run to just be competetive.

[mike rousch]

Really sure about that, Billy L went a 1.23 , on one of his low or mid 50 runs, yet other 60' 1.30's and still run low 50's and 40'.

Bet no one ever thought you can 60' a 1.13 on 28 x 10.5 tires either ,but I did.

You just have to push the envelope, and I have to every single run to just be competetive.

i didnt say a blower car couldnt 60 in the mid to low 1.20's. i just said @ 3200 there not going to 60 well enough to go 30's.... and i also think that every singal person in that class pushes the envelope on every singal pass!

[dan schoneck]

Hey Sam, Junior's had a CCW F2 in his car at that race. And yes it was with taller tires and very good conditions. He is the King of the F2's to date with both types of blowers.. Zoop[/QUOTE]

On 29*10s Zoop:D I am still the fastest on 28S 4.96 to the eigth and 7.76 @ 185. Junior is great and we talk all the time. We are both looking a coming over, we will see how testing goes in the next couple of weeks and maybe a switch to the side slinger for me?

Later to all. Dan

[lightningblue02]

Broke one of them also. I'm not say you can just throw on a blower and go fast instantly, but like you said been doing my deal for for 6 years now, and new guys with blowers like you and Phil Hines come in and are already major players and there isn't near the learning curve and parts destruction with the blower , vs. a nitorus small block. And with the 196mph Trap speeds from blowers, there is 7.30's in there guaranteed. just a matter of time.
I don't think 7.30's at our weight but maybe, but back to my question to you about more air&fuel= more nitrous right?
We all brake parts it is inevitable. I just took my old motor apart and it busted the block in 5 places. But this is not a pissing match Halfacre broke parts, Posey broke parts, you broke parts, Billy L. BROKE ALOT OF PARTS! We all brake em and its part of heads up racing. 196mph how many times was that run? like I said i'm not being a jerk but i'm reading what everyone is writing and looking at the new proposed rules and I can't for the life of me see how they are justifing all the major rule changes with everyone as close as we are.
Thanks for considering me a major player we should be a heck of alot more competitive next year ( I Hope ). Is racing season here yet:D
A.J. Powell

[lightningblue02]

missed your last post!

[lightningblue02]

talk to everyone on Monday nobody beat on me to bad till I get back!!!!

[TA@TCI]

Didn't you guys catch the 200lb break for the smaller blowers? I assume the diminions given are for a F2, I would think that 400-440" engine with a F2 @3000lbs would be the combo to try.

Someone from MI went 7.40@ like 188 with a 355" TFS highport heads an F2 blower at 3000lbs on taller 29.5 x 10.5" tires. It was in great air in all, but still damn impressive for a small engine with less blower abd JUST TFS highports.:eek:

One would think the same F2 at the same 3000lbs on a larger 427" with much better Yates/Neal/B.T. heads would be faster, right?:confused: ;)

Oh, and Thom don't forget the carbon doors so I can get to 2550 with the cast manifold, thanks.

7.40 with an F2!!!!!:eek: He must have had a good converter!:D

[331cobra]

Now at Joliet in the 4000DA in the heat I did gi 7.50 on a slick track, 1.21 60 on the 7.56@183.6 and a 1.26 on the 7.58@186 pass

Bet no one ever thought you can 60' a 1.13 on 28 x 10.5 tires either ,but I did.

You just have to push the envelope, and I have to every single run to just be competetive.


Hey Sam, if you went 7.58 with a 1.26 60' in 4000DA how fast would you go if you had that 1.13 60' you mentioned above in 1000ft of air? High 7.30's?

[sam sso2077]

Hey Sam, if you went 7.58 with a 1.26 60' in 4000DA how fast would you go if you had that 1.13 60' you mentioned above in 1000ft of air? High 7.30's?

The 1.13 60' was 400' DA, and got loose before 1/8 mile as the track was realy cold.

I guess my the math yeah, but it eat itself up in two pass in 4000' DA, I but i'm sure it would be safer in 400' and not hurt anything in 10x better air.


Like i said be overall pass was 1.155 ,3.184, 4.846, 7.49 in 800' DA, so let see gain .02 in the 60' should yield .04 in the 1/4 THat would be a 7.45

[dan schoneck]

7.40 with an F2!!!!!:eek: He must have had a good converter!:D

He did:D

[TA@TCI]

Hey Sam, Junior's had a CCW F2 in his car at that race. And yes it was with taller tires and very good conditions. He is the King of the F2's to date with both types of blowers.. Zoop

On 29*10s Zoop:D I am still the fastest on 28S 4.96 to the eigth and 7.76 @ 185. Junior is great and we talk all the time. We are both looking a coming over, we will see how testing goes in the next couple of weeks and maybe a switch to the side slinger for me?

Later to all. Dan[/QUOTE]

He must have had a good converter too!!!:D

[zoop]

On 29*10s Zoop:D I am still the fastest on 28S 4.96 to the eigth and 7.76 @ 185. Junior is great and we talk all the time. We are both looking a coming over, we will see how testing goes in the next couple of weeks and maybe a switch to the side slinger for me?

Later to all. Dan

He must have had a good converter too!!!:D[/QUOTE]

Could I get a good converter too,Tony?

[TA@TCI]

Why sure you can! Weld up or bolt together?:D

[zoop]

Why sure you can! Weld up or bolt together?:D

One of each!;)

[mike rousch]

how come no one has said anything about a bb n.o.s combo?

[sso2028]

how come no one has said anything about a bb n.o.s combo?

?????? whats there to say , rules have been in affect for this combo for sometime now? 525cu inch max cast manifold one carb at 3050lbs with nos or 650cu inch max n/a at 2900lbs.

[mike rousch]

i guess it just seems kinda unfair for most everone to say that the rules to be changed to run with the "procharged" cars. i could be wrong but i think i remember seeing a bb run a 47 in bowling green. im just curious to see why no one brought that up, thats all.

[sso2028]

i guess it just seems kinda unfair for most everone to say that the rules to be changed to run with the "procharged" cars. i could be wrong but i think i remember seeing a bb run a 47 in bowling green. im just curious to see why no one brought that up, thats all.

conditions were very good there, problem is that the f3 blower cars make so much horsepower that in $hitty conditions they can run consistant 50's were the other combos can't, they are at risk of blowing the tires off on every run where the blower guys can leave real soft like 1.30 60fts and basically still pull out a 50, try doin that with an nos car aint gonna happen. nos combo willl have to 60ft like 1.14 to 1.20 to have any shot at running a competitive#.

[mike rousch]

conditions were very good there, problem is that the f3 blower cars make so much horsepower that in $hitty conditions they can run consistant 50's were the other combos can't, they are at risk of blowing the tires off on every run where the blower guys can leave real soft like 1.30 60fts and basically still pull out a 50, try doin that with an nos car aint gonna happen. nos combo willl have to 60ft like 1.14 to 1.20 to have any shot at running a competitive#.

but wasent that in bowling green that a pro charged car went a 46 . i guess the point im trying to make is there was 2 combo's that went 40's. if sam would have been on his A game i belive he would have been right there with them and gone 40's. if halfacer or manny would have been there i belive they would have gone40's as well... i would also like to put something else out, how good do you think a procharged/turbo car would run with a blow through carb on it in this class, not very good i would think... have any of the nitrous guys ever thought of using fuel injection and still use nitrous? it might not be as fast at first but in the long run i think it would be worth giving it a try since alot of people say they cant keep motors together... and i belive that if any combo in this class falls of there 60ft just the least little bit there done, that goes for pro charged cars to.. a 3200# car is not going to 60 as good as 2600# car on a 10.5 tire... so saying that a nitrous car has to 60 so well to run a good number is correct, but so does every combo. i dont belive that anyone tried to be "soft" in the 60 last year. thats all they can do. there was ALOT of procarged/turbo cars blow the tires off in the 60 last year.

[sam sso2077]

but wasent that in bowling green that a pro charged car went a 46 . i guess the point im trying to make is there was 2 combo's that went 40's. if sam would have been on his A game i belive he would have been right there with them and gone 40's. if halfacer or manny would have been there i belive they would have gone40's as well... i would also like to put something else out, how good do you think a procharged/turbo car would run with a blow through carb on it in this class, not very good i would think... have any of the nitrous guys ever thought of using fuel injection and still use nitrous? it might not be as fast at first but in the long run i think it would be worth giving it a try since alot of people say they cant keep motors together... and i belive that if any combo in this class falls of there 60ft just the least little bit there done, that goes for pro charged cars to.. a 3200# car is not going to 60 as good as 2600# car on a 10.5 tire... so saying that a nitrous car has to 60 so well to run a good number is correct, but so does every combo. i dont belive that anyone tried to be "soft" in the 60 last year. thats all they can do. there was ALOT of procarged/turbo cars blow the tires off in the 60 last year.


Just so you know, that 7.46 @ B.G. was with a 1.30ish 60' still. I personaly have seen Billy L 60' a 1.23, think if Urist was to 60' 1.23 if he really tried, a gain .07 in the 60' is a gain .10-.12 in the 1/4 therefore could have been well into the 30's, and they will be sooner or later when they start 60' ing like they should.. Don't get me wrong, I don't Expect them to 60' 1.15 or any teen ,but they are very capable of 60' in the low 1.20's.


If I can add 300lbs and 60' a 1.18 @2900, then there is no reason a turbo car @ 2900lbs couldn't be close to that, like 1.20-1.23.

[sso2028]

sam, also what alot of these guys don't understand is that the blower car can 60ft soft and still run hard to the eigth , where as an nos car will not. an nos car soley relies on a good 330 generaly if you got a good 330 your on a good pass with an nos car, and in order to get the 330 you need the hard leaving 60ft where with a blower car its not as critical.
and secondly our nos cars if we added weight to them would still 60ft hard but would slow up big time on the other end where as the blower cars most of them are currently already overweight and does affect the et as much as it would an nos combo due to all the reserve brute horsepower they have.

[JGlass]

Just so you know, that 7.46 @ B.G. was with a 1.30ish 60' still. I personaly have seen Billy L 60' a 1.23, think if Urist was to 60' 1.23 if he really tried, a gain .07 in the 60' is a gain .10-.12 in the 1/4 therefore could have been well into the 30's, and they will be sooner or later when they start 60' ing like they should.. Don't get me wrong, I don't Expect them to 60' 1.15 or any teen ,but they are very capable of 60' in the low 1.20's.


If I can add 300lbs and 60' a 1.18 @2900, then there is no reason a turbo car @ 2900lbs couldn't be close to that, like 1.20-1.23.

Hey sam,

At the michigan race i ran, the one where it was snowing....my car went 1.25 to the 60ft and it was a D3-R on a 347. Skinny kid set the suspension up at his shop and we never touched it at the track. These F3s should 60ft low 1.20s without much problem.

[sam sso2077]

Hey sam,

At the michigan race i ran, the one where it was snowing....my car went 1.25 to the 60ft and it was a D3-R on a 347. Skinny kid set the suspension up at his shop and we never touched it at the track. These F3s should 60ft low 1.20s without much problem.

I know it and when they do along with their big 195mph top end power ,they will runs 40's with ease and ocasional 30's, BUT NMRA is too damn dumb to realize that.

I think a F2@2900-3000lbs (like the 91.5 turbo) should be max blower in NMRA SS/O, Either of those can run 187-190mph.

[sicksn95]

Do you mean "dumb"?

[mike rousch]

I know it and when they do along with their big 195mph top end power ,they will runs 40's with ease and ocasional 30's, BUT NMRA is too damn dum to realize that.

I think a F2@2900-3000lbs (like the 91.5 turbo) should be max blower in NMRA SS/O, Either of those can run 187-190mph.


hmmm, so you get on here and beg for carbon doors so you can get your 50 pounds that you need oh so bad and then you call the guys you want it from "dumb" dosent make a lot of sense.

[JGlass]

I know it and when they do along with their big 195mph top end power ,they will runs 40's with ease and ocasional 30's, BUT NMRA is too damn dum to realize that.

I think a F2@2900-3000lbs (like the 91.5 turbo) should be max blower in NMRA SS/O, Either of those can run 187-190mph.

On top of that, my car weighed 3185, and it was snowing on us in the staging lanes.

[Thom Bates]

I know it and when they do along with their big 195mph top end power ,they will runs 40's with ease and ocasional 30's, BUT NMRA is too damn dum to realize that.

But we're not too damn dumb to ban/suspend you for statements like that. Why do you insist to bite the hand that feeds you and gives you a good place to do what you want..... race?

You are complaining about mere HUNDREDTHS, yes..... that's right HUNDREDTHS....... about .01 to .03 max.

Explain to me and the rest of the world how on earth you have any place to complain about the blower combo getting hit with 50# (.02-.04 e.t.) and allowing you to have EXACTLY what you asked for with dual carbs and sheetmetal intake to make up for the "flow capability" of the throttle bodies and injectors the force induction guys run, and also offer you the option of 50# off if you decide to take the "cast manifold" road to gain .02 to .04 back. If my math is correct.... that's a .04 to .08 e.t. swing.

The bottom line is simple, we can sit here on the internet all day, probably all week or all month and bench race, but what matters is what happens between the start and finish line on race day, and I'm not talking race day on another track with different weather conditions and different rules, but same session, same day, same event.... in a controlled event like we offer with our rules. If NOS combos have to 60' better than the blowers and the blowers need to 60' better than the turbo's so that EVERYONE has the capability to end up at the finish line within a couple hundredths...... where the r/t and chassis setup and the tune make the difference between winning and losing............. then that's the way it needs to be........ and that's what we strive for.

You have shown in the past, several times that you have the potential and capability to run the numbers. Stop publicly complaining, stop calling us dumb. Get off the computer and work on your combo if you plan to race..... otherwise, you're just complaining to have something to do.

[sam sso2077]

But we're not too damn dumb to ban/suspend you for statements like that. Why do you insist to bite the hand that feeds you and gives you a good place to do what you want..... race?

You are complaining about mere HUNDREDTHS, yes..... that's right HUNDREDTHS....... about .01 to .03 max.

Explain to me and the rest of the world how on earth you have any place to complain about the blower combo getting hit with 50# (.02-.04 e.t.) and allowing you to have EXACTLY what you asked for with dual carbs and sheetmetal intake to make up for the "flow capability" of the throttle bodies and injectors the force induction guys run, and also offer you the option of 50# off if you decide to take the "cast manifold" road to gain .02 to .04 back. If my math is correct.... that's a .04 to .08 e.t. swing.

The bottom line is simple, we can sit here on the internet all day, probably all week or all month and bench race, but what matters is what happens between the start and finish line on race day, and I'm not talking race day on another track with different weather conditions and different rules, but same session, same day, same event.... in a controlled event like we offer with our rules. If NOS combos have to 60' better than the blowers and the blowers need to 60' better than the turbo's so that EVERYONE has the capability to end up at the finish line within a couple hundredths...... where the r/t and chassis setup and the tune make the difference between winning and losing............. then that's the way it needs to be........ and that's what we strive for.

You have shown in the past, several times that you have the potential and capability to run the numbers. Stop publicly complaining, stop calling us dumb. Get off the computer and work on your combo if you plan to race..... otherwise, you're just complaining to have something to do.

Most blowers car are already 3180-3200, so they really won't add the full 50lbs, most will add 25lbs ,thats .01-.015. and the 50lbs off I get isn't obtainable with STEEL DOORS, so that .02-.04 isn't gonna happen.

Lets se ,7.46 w 1.30 60', Ok now if he figures out his combo and 60's a 1.22, that .08 gain in 60' will be again about .12 at 1/4 = equaling a 7.34. then we're a tenth to tenth & half behind. Not just a few hundredths.

Thom I know you are not Dumb, and didn't mean it toward you directly, but I do believe a few people on the rules committee that have more sayso fit this description.

[sam sso2077]

And the other thing add a second carb and the weight of the manifold, 2nd regulator, lines, linkage, that should add about 25lbs, So then w/ two fours on a sheetmetal ,i'm still overweight. This is why I ask for carbon doors for everybody, it would help the overweight blower/turbo cars as well.

[331cobra]

If NOS combos have to 60' better than the blowers and the blowers need to 60' better than the turbo's so that EVERYONE has the capability to end up at the finish line within a couple hundredths...... where the r/t and chassis setup and the tune make the difference between winning and losing............. then that's the way it needs to be........ and that's what we strive for.


Thats the best post I have ever read.

[TA@TCI]

Thats the best post I have ever read.

I am sure it is for you.:D

[331cobra]

I am sure it is for you.:D

What does that mean?:confused:

[enickle]

So lets finalize these rules and move on so other people can get ready for bradenton

[zoop]

John Kolivas you got a p/m. Zoop

[TA@TCI]

Lets se ,7.46 w 1.30 60', Ok now if he figures out his combo and 60's a 1.22, that .08 gain in 60' will be again about .12 at 1/4 = equaling a 7.34. then we're a tenth to tenth & half behind. Not just a few hundredths.

This is the best post that I have ever heard!:cool:

[mike rousch]

This is the best post that I have ever heard!:cool:
i think what john was saying is that there is more to being able to win than just what the rules say. be on your A game everytime you show up and dont complain if your got tree'd, your car spun ect ect.... i could be wrong but thats the way i took it and agree 100%

[TA@TCI]

Just beating him up a little. He knows what I am talking about.:D

[BuzzeD]

All I can say is "WOW" after reading all this. How come no one else is complaining about the rules, except someone that won 2 races last year. I could understand if you hadn't won a race all year or even made it to the finals. Let's cut out this BS and get to racing. We could sit here for days (as if some of you haven't allready) and discuss numbers & what ifs. The only way to find out whats gonna happen is to line them up & race. I think this will be a great year for SSO & the fans will get to see some of the best racing ever.

[Thom Bates]

Thom I know you are not Dumb, and didn't mean it toward you directly, but I do believe a few people on the rules committee that have more sayso fit this description.

And the other thing add a second carb and the weight of the manifold, 2nd regulator, lines, linkage, that should add about 25lbs, So then w/ two fours on a sheetmetal ,i'm still overweight. This is why I ask for carbon doors for everybody, it would help the overweight blower/turbo cars as well.

Well Sam, here's the issue. If you think I am the "smart" one of the group that has less influence on the decisions, in a group that has 5 people that vote, how do you think they - the "dumb" ones with more "authority" - are going to respond and vote after reading your disrespectful comments? How do you know whether or not we are considering allowing the small block nitrous combos to use lightweight doors and such?

I've got thick skin, and so do most of the committee, but complete total disrespect for the folks that a) offer you an open forum to talk, b) offer you a fair place to race and c) make and enforce the rules for the class and series you run......... just makes no sense is completely unnecessary, and will not be tolerated.

You have you opinions and theories, and so do I and so do the rest of the committee. In the end, we the rules committee will do what we think is best for the class for both parity and participation.

[lightningblue02]

:confused: So Thom how bout them rules!!! I am anxiously waiting along with everyone else.
A.J.

[Thom Bates]

We were planning on this past Monday, but it didn't happen. We're now looking at tomorrow.

[lightningblue02]

Thanks that would be great

[sam sso2077]

Well Sam, here's the issue. If you think I am the "smart" one of the group that has less influence on the decisions, in a group that has 5 people that vote, how do you think they - the "dumb" ones with more "authority" - are going to respond and vote after reading your disrespectful comments? How do you know whether or not we are considering allowing the small block nitrous combos to use lightweight doors and such?

I've got thick skin, and so do most of the committee, but complete total disrespect for the folks that a) offer you an open forum to talk, b) offer you a fair place to race and c) make and enforce the rules for the class and series you run......... just makes no sense is completely unnecessary, and will not be tolerated.

You have you opinions and theories, and so do I and so do the rest of the committee. In the end, we the rules committee will do what we think is best for the class for both parity and participation.


Well the newest revisions said the same things about light weight body parts and "doors" still wasn't mentioned. So figured they already shot it down. Maybe what I saw was the first version of the "preliminary rules".

[itllrun2]

We were planning on this past Monday, but it didn't happen. We're now looking at tomorrow.

I guess now you're looking at tomorrow again. I know you guys got alot going on but come on we need the rules so we can finish our cars. If you keep on at the rate its going now I know my car isnt going to be there. You guys are going to have more time in finalizing the rules than we are going to have to make are cars class worthy.

[Thom Bates]

??????????

Very sorry all..... i tried, but got a couple small issues yet. Tomorrow afternoon for sure!

[zoop]

Very sorry all..... i tried, but got a couple small issues yet. Tomorrow afternoon for sure!


Tomorrow noon, meaning Today @ noon or tomorrow? Thom you posted this reply at 12:02am today.;)

[Thom Bates]

Today is the plan. Charlie and I need to finalize a couple items and they are all done. Charlie's been out of town on business and we were planning on getting them finished earlier today. His plan had some delays, so we won't talk until later yet today.

I apologize for all the inconveniences, but we want 'em right, not early and wrong.

Thom

[itllrun2]

Very sorry all..... i tried, but got a couple small issues yet. Tomorrow afternoon for sure!


Today is the plan. Charlie and I need to finalize a couple items and they are all done. Charlie's been out of town on business and we were planning on getting them finished earlier today. His plan had some delays, so we won't talk until later yet today.

I apologize for all the inconveniences, but we want 'em right, not early and wrong.

Thom

Getting them out early isnt going to be an issue. Dont mean to be a smart a$$. Im just ready to look over the finals and see what I can or cant do. If im the only one who feels like this I applogize for posting this. I just got a butt load of stuff left to do before the car is done.

[Thom Bates]

Don't worry, I'm not taking it personal. I'm really frustrated that it's taking as long as it is..... but that's the nature of the beast when we have so many members as part of the rules committee and several of us have other full-time jobs and family that interfere with getting us all in a conference call to finalize stuff. Today was another example.

Charlie and I will be having our final meeting bright and early tomorrow and these rules will be out tomorrow morning..... or you guys can fire me. :D

[saleen_n_around]

Your're fired!

[itllrun2]

Don't worry, I'm not taking it personal. I'm really frustrated that it's taking as long as it is..... but that's the nature of the beast when we have so many members as part of the rules committee and several of us have other full-time jobs and family that interfere with getting us all in a conference call to finalize stuff. Today was another example.

Charlie and I will be having our final meeting bright and early tomorrow and these rules will be out tomorrow morning..... or you guys can fire me. :D

You shouldnt set yourself up like that. Now look what Ron did to you. Hopefully there is just some small issues and they will be out later this afternoon.