Big lug nut problem

[SpeedyFE]

I have weld pro stars 15x10 6.5bs and I bought the recommended shank size open end lug nuts, 1.380" shank length. I put my wheel on and stared tightening 3 lug nuts, I got two about evenly down and kinda tight, and went to start the third and noticed the wheel wobbling with the lug nuts tight....I tried to take two of the lug nuts off, as I was backing them out, it got tighter and tighter, then snap...2 broken wheel studs.

My question is, if this is the recommended shank length, why did they bottom out and the wheel was still loose? Any recommendations on what I can do?

Paul

[NMRA Jason]

Let me ask you this -

If you take the wheel while it's off the car, and stick a lugnut/washer through one of the lug nut holes, does it protrude out the back?

[SpeedyFE]

I checked that, and it is close, but it doesnt protrude through. I estimate it about 1/4" or more away from the back of the wheel, but I know the wheel compresses when it is tightned. I just dont understand becuase this is the size shank that is recommended.

[NMRA Jason]

I know it sounded like a silly thought, but you never know what little thing is gonna bite you in the ass.

It sounds to me like you may have had the wheel slightly cocked when you put the first two lug nuts on there. It could have been the slightest bit. That'll help you to tear up the studs in a hurry. I've done it a few times before, and it sucks.

Here's how I always install shank lug nuts. Put two opposing ones on, thread them in about halfway by hand. Then pull the wheel out towards you to make sure that the lug nuts are seated properly in the wheel. At that point, alternate tightening the lug nuts you have on there evenly (one, then the other, and back again) until they are fully seated. At that point you should be able to take the other three and run them in. It sounds like a chore, but once you get it right a couple of times you'll realize it isn't. Make sure you tighten them properly as well. If this is a 1/2" stud on the axle, make sure to tighten in a star pattern to 90-100 lb./ft. of torque.

[SpeedyFE]

Thanks Jason for the info, Actually, they way you describe is very similar to how i put them on, i have the longer studs. I am just very aprensive to try again with out shorter shanks, this was a huge pain to get the nuts off, then to have them snap.....

[NMRA Jason]

Another thing that you need to be really careful about is having something, anything at all, in the threads on the studs. First time I ever put a wheel onto 3" studs I broke all five of them. That shank size is the one you need, so hit the studs with a wire brush, buy a couple of new lug nuts/studs to replace those broken ones, and try again. Do it by hand the first time...

[SpeedyFE]

sounds good, so definately I would not want to go for the smaller 0.75 inch shank? i just dont understand why 2 of them would seize up like that on the wheel stud.....it makes no sense...

[NMRA Jason]

Don't use the .750 shank. As you tighten it down it will compress the wheel too much. Use the correct lugs for the wheels.

Could have been something in the threads of the lugs, or the studs. That's the only thing that usually causes it other than if the wheel was cocked.

[SpeedyFE]

i gotcha, ok I will give it a go, and let you know after i do it, I still have to get new studs so i won't get to it untill this weekend. BTW, do you use washers in front of the wheel studs when you screw them down to the axle flange?

Paul

[NMRA Jason]

washers...on the outside of the wheel? Or are you talking about how you install the new studs?

[SpeedyFE]

when i install the new studs to the axle.

[NMRA Jason]

There are a couple of ways I've done it in the past.

- Use an old open end lug nut with a couple of washers between the nut and the axle flange. Run it tight until it's flush with an air gun.

- Use a c-clamp with some sort of sleeve (or washers) to pull it in. This way is probably less stressful on the stud, but with a long stud is probably harder to pull off.

[SpeedyFE]

thanks again for your help, I will post how it goes.

Paul

[NMRA Jason]

Sure thing, good luck!

[SpeedyFE]

thanks, I will need it, i am going to be sweating bullets when I am tightening!

[Mrcoop]

The simple solution is to measure the wheel (hub area) thickness, this will give you a good idea of what size shank you will need.

The other thing to check is your studs. Is it a fully threaded stud or a press fit? I had an issue with a press fit stud where there were not enough threads(at the rotor side) and the nut would bottom the stud before tightening the wheel. Hope this helps. If you see the knurled part of the stud at the rotor,(instead of threads) they are incorrect.

[SpeedyFE]

hello, thanks for the reply, they are screw in studs all the way, no press. I am thinking like jason said maybe I just over did a couple of them instead of going gradual all the way around. I am going to try tonight and we'll see what happens. Thanks again.

Paul

[on3 racing]

anti seize is long shanks lugs friend

[NMRA Jason]

You shouldn't use anything to lubricate a wheel stud, ever.

Anti-seize holds dirt, which can become embedded in the threads and cause the lug nut to lock up. It also can break down with the heat generated by the braking system, which will cause it to gum up and also become embedded in the threads of the stud and damage them.

[on3 racing]

You shouldn't use anything to lubricate a wheel stud, ever.

Anti-seize holds dirt, which can become embedded in the threads and cause the lug nut to lock up. It also can break down with the heat generated by the braking system, which will cause it to gum up and also become embedded in the threads of the stud and damage them.



you clean the stud put some anti sieze on and put the lug on, nothing will get in while the lug is on. when you take the lug off the stud is clean. put a little more back on before you put the lug back on.

your theory sound all nice, but i learned this from some old timers and have been doing it for years and have never had a problem.


ill keep doing what im doing, it is working for me. never broke a stud either!

[NMRA Jason]

If you're using extended studs your theory is shot to hell. There will be dirt in those threads of the stud that extend beyond the lug nut.

Using any type of lubricant at all will throw off torque readings from what they are spec'd to be. If the torque reading is incorrect, it can lead to rotors being out of round or even a wheel falling off.

NONE of the major vehicle or tire manufacturers recommend using any type of lubricant on wheel studs, ever.

[J.Wilson]

Anti seize here with no problems, heck the car even sat outside in the open for 8 months and the lugs came right off. They do make a high temp anti-seize FWIW.

[Anthony]

If you're using extended studs your theory is shot to hell. There will be dirt in those threads of the stud that extend beyond the lug nut.

Using any type of lubricant at all will throw off torque readings from what they are spec'd to be. If the torque reading is incorrect, it can lead to rotors being out of round or even a wheel falling off.

NONE of the major vehicle or tire manufacturers recommend using any type of lubricant on wheel studs, ever.

i just read through some ARP torque instructions and they say YOU MUST use a lubricant to obtain correct torque readings. one reading for 30wt and another for ARP lube. so where did you find this info that contradicts ARP?


If the end of the stud is all dirty and full of rocks, when the lug nut is removed all rocks and other thread locking boulders will come off, leaving behind clean threads. on the other hand without a lubricant you can have galling and that leads to broken studs.......as the original poster has encountered. i am going to search this website and google to see if i can find this problem you speak of.


only thing i can find is that you shouldnt use wd-40. by corvette guys and corvette guys know everything.

NAPA anti seize (item # 765-1674), it says right on the bottle to use anti seize on lug nuts.

here is some good reading from an engineering website.

http://www.engineersedge.com/wwwboard/posts/13070.html

[5.0kid]

corvette guys and corvette guys know everything.





Is this because they are old and wise? lmao

[whatbumper]

I have never used anything on the threads and have had my wheels on and off a lot. We have 5/8s studs though. We of course just have an open lug nut with a thick aluminum spacer behind the nut. Our wheels are tight on the lugs too.