Any chance of a 2 step?

[edtootall]

Just wondering if I could lobby for a 2 step. Us stick guys might have a chance against you auto guys :D Just tossing it out there

[fairmontology]

How come the race car guys always want to screw up a good street car class?

[Joe Cram]

A 2 step was used this weekend by a stick car.

[fairmontology]

And nobody said anything??????

RULES & REGULATIONS
S197 body vehicles only with OEM type 4.6 or 5.4 (3v or 4v) and V-6 engines only. RENTAL CARS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
Any modifications or power adders permitted. Any gear change must occur as a result of an internal function of the transmission or from direct action by the driver. Pneumatic, electric, hydraulic, etc. shifters prohibited. Trans-brakes and 2-steps prohibited. This is a Foot Break Only. 3400 lbs. Minimum weight.

[againstallodds1]

A 2 step was used this weekend by a stick car.

I thought I heard it. Was wondering what was up with that.

[germansheperd]

geez. intent of class?

[Randy@SuttonHp]

How come the race car guys always want to screw up a good street car class?

Not to get into a pissing match, but how is a 2 step any different than a stall convertor? Neither one of them come stock from the factory.

I know that my son ran 1 race last year with a stick and zero this year because of the fact you can not use a 2 step.

I find it very difficult to launch above idle consistantly without a 2 step.

[bob7by]

And I just thought it was those John Candy Spark Plugs

[larz]

I give, What's that Bobby?

[bob7by]

to get into a pissing match, but how is a 2 step any different than a stall convertor?

Randy, I don't understand that reasoning since a two step controls launch rpm on the floor or anywhere in between and an SST legal stall convertor must still be governed by sight or sound without stutter aide of any kind. It seems the stall only helps to close the gap between a stick and auto both without stutter aides to be fair.

[sunkist351]

ok here is a guestion to throw out there. what if a person just uses their rev limiter say use a 5k pill and put it to the floor during launch. no 2 step but just the msd box rev limiter. yes i know that would slow the car down on the top end but would be consistant on the launch is that legal if you cant use a 2 step. i dont run this class but thaught it was a interesting topic.

[sidewayscoupe]

I heard it too.

A 2 step was used this weekend by a stick car.

[fairmontology]

Not to get into a pissing match, but how is a 2 step any different than a stall convertor? Neither one of them come stock from the factory.

I know that my son ran 1 race last year with a stick and zero this year because of the fact you can not use a 2 step.

I find it very difficult to launch above idle consistantly without a 2 step.
As Bobby stated, Randy......the stall converter must still be governed by the right foot and either the eye or ear of the driver. The converter will allow the auto car to react much quicker and allow it to be "on par" with the stick cars in the "leave" department.

ok here is a guestion to throw out there. what if a person just uses their rev limiter say use a 5k pill and put it to the floor during launch. no 2 step but just the msd box rev limiter. yes i know that would slow the car down on the top end but would be consistant on the launch is that legal if you cant use a 2 step. i dont run this class but thaught it was a interesting topic.

If used in this manner it would be considered a "stutter box" type ignition and, therefore, illegal in Super Stang. Look, the original intent of the class was to showcase the street-legal S197 Mustangs and allow them to compete against each other without having "ringers" or "purpose built cars" coming into the class and killing everything. Hence, the lower payout. Years ago in FFW there was a big money payout in Mod Motor. Originally it was intended for modular powered street Fords to showcase the new modular engine. Gradually......year by year (and sometimes event-by-event) more things were allowed that were considered "race car items" by the organization. Virtually overnight a new batch of purpose built race cars came into the class and literally ran off the street cars. Car counts dwindled. The payout diminished. Eventually, the class was merged with Open Comp. Then the organization closed it's doors forever.

When this class was first announced I for one was tickled to see it retain the true street car status. Then....a Cobra Jet showed up (nothing personal Matt Stanford). Here is a car that is purpose built BY THE FACTORY as a race car. Now, we have someone with a 2-step and rumored to be too light as per the 3400# minimum weight. What next? Where does it end? At what point does this class end up like FFW ModMotor or NMRA Modular Muscle? When does another CJ show up with a G-Force or Jerico transmission and they are allowed to run "to bump the car count" or "because they are in NHRA trim and are only going to run one race"??????

I like this class for the same reason as I loved Ultra Stang. STREET DRIVEN S197 Mustangs and foot brake off a Pro Tree. Anyone with an S197 can come race and have a shot at going rounds. Even V6 cars.......anyone remember the car that won the championship? Or the one that leads the points right now? By not relying on electronics such as transbrakes and 2-step boxes we have put THE DRIVER back into the equation. Classes such as this are one of the last bastions of racing where the driver is the equalizer. Not the wallet, not the tires, not the delay box, not the style of button you use, and not the throttle stop. The driver and his car.......period.

[germansheperd]

Why are the cars not weighed after each round and why was this person with a 2 step not DQ'd and pulled off the track?

[JimIII@JDM]

A 2 step was used this weekend by a stick car.

NO HE DID NOT, THE CAR WAS LEAVING OFF THE ENGINE LIMITER OF 6200 RPM, not too hard to believe for a car that is only a 350 HP NA car with suspension and good tires to hold. Also if you see how hard this car is getting out of the hole you know he has to be leaving off the wood!

The car in questions does not even have a 2 step in the car or any electronics.

A 2 step is an electronic aid and not allowed in the class.

[ArtQ]

Jim, my car is close on the weight, if I went with light wheels it would be under the 3400 lb limit. Are you guys going to lift this restriction before the next race?

[edtootall]

How come the race car guys always want to screw up a good street car class?

It was a simple question. Did you not see the ( :D ) ? Maybe you don't understand what it means. It's called sarcasm. :rolleyes: <----This means you have your panties in a bunch over NOTHING!

As for the racecar guy comment, I put a DOT tire and exhaust on my car just for this class. The only reason I decided to run this class is the exposure for the S197 cars and Ford Racing. I could have run MM, but it doesn't just showcase the S197 cars.


geez. intent of class?

Again just a little sarcasm. When did racers lose their sense of humor? :rolleyes:


As Bobby stated, Randy......the stall converter must still be governed by the right foot and either the eye or ear of the driver. The converter will allow the auto car to react much quicker and allow it to be "on par" with the stick cars in the "leave" department.



If used in this manner it would be considered a "stutter box" type ignition and, therefore, illegal in Super Stang. Look, the original intent of the class was to showcase the street-legal S197 Mustangs and allow them to compete against each other without having "ringers" or "purpose built cars" coming into the class and killing everything. Hence, the lower payout. Years ago in FFW there was a big money payout in Mod Motor. Originally it was intended for modular powered street Fords to showcase the new modular engine. Gradually......year by year (and sometimes event-by-event) more things were allowed that were considered "race car items" by the organization. Virtually overnight a new batch of purpose built race cars came into the class and literally ran off the street cars. Car counts dwindled. The payout diminished. Eventually, the class was merged with Open Comp. Then the organization closed it's doors forever.

When this class was first announced I for one was tickled to see it retain the true street car status. Then....a Cobra Jet showed up (nothing personal Matt Stanford). Here is a car that is purpose built BY THE FACTORY as a race car. Now, we have someone with a 2-step and rumored to be too light as per the 3400# minimum weight. What next? Where does it end? At what point does this class end up like FFW ModMotor or NMRA Modular Muscle? When does another CJ show up with a G-Force or Jerico transmission and they are allowed to run "to bump the car count" or "because they are in NHRA trim and are only going to run one race"??????

I like this class for the same reason as I loved Ultra Stang. STREET DRIVEN S197 Mustangs and foot brake off a Pro Tree. Anyone with an S197 can come race and have a shot at going rounds. Even V6 cars.......anyone remember the car that won the championship? Or the one that leads the points right now? By not relying on electronics such as transbrakes and 2-step boxes we have put THE DRIVER back into the equation. Classes such as this are one of the last bastions of racing where the driver is the equalizer. Not the wallet, not the tires, not the delay box, not the style of button you use, and not the throttle stop. The driver and his car.......period.


So now you are bitching about a Cobra Jet racing in the class? Give me a f&%#ing break! Purpose built racecar? Yeah, it was purpose built with the intent of showing the racing world Ford is very much involved in DRAG RACING!

As for a Cobra Jet showing up with a G-force or Jerico, it wouldn't be legal in the class. Just like adding a C-4 would be illegal.

How is having a trans brake or 2 step taking the driver out of the equation? I suppose the car drives itself when one of these devices is used? Does it shift itself, turn itself? :rolleyes:

Once again it was sarcasm, but it seems you are too much of a dolt to understand that.


NO HE DID NOT, THE CAR WAS LEAVING OFF THE ENGINE LIMITER OF 6200 RPM, not too hard to believe for a car that is only a 350 HP NA car with suspension and good tires to hold. Also if you see how hard this car is getting out of the hole you know he has to be leaving off the wood!

The car in questions does not even have a 2 step in the car or any electronics.

A 2 step is an electronic aid and not allowed in the class.

Jim sorry for all BS in this thread. I was meant as a joke. Matt D and I were talking about being stick cars in class with tons of autos.

[JimIII@JDM]

Jim, my car is close on the weight, if I went with light wheels it would be under the 3400 lb limit. Are you guys going to lift this restriction before the next race?


We have something in the works for non power adder cars so this doesnt become an issue.

[Joe Cram]

NO HE DID NOT, THE CAR WAS LEAVING OFF THE ENGINE LIMITER OF 6200 RPM, not too hard to believe for a car that is only a 350 HP NA car with suspension and good tires to hold. Also if you see how hard this car is getting out of the hole you know he has to be leaving off the wood!

The car in questions does not even have a 2 step in the car or any electronics.

A 2 step is an electronic aid and not allowed in the class.

Then I stand Corrected. If he's leaving the rev limiter then cudo's to him. That car ran well all weekend and cut some Killer Lights.

[JimIII@JDM]

Jim sorry for all BS in this thread. I was meant as a joke. Matt D and I were talking about being stick cars in class with tons of autos.

Hey not a worry, i understand asking for it! Im one of those auto guys not because of consistency but because i can't drive stick for $hit!!:D

[fairmontology]

It was a simple question. Did you not see the ( :D ) ? Maybe you don't understand what it means. It's called sarcasm. :rolleyes: <----This means you have your panties in a bunch over NOTHING!
Oh.....I left out the smilies so that means I was "getting my panties in a bunch" and wasn't guilty of sarcasm too. Oh the horror.

As for the racecar guy comment, I put a DOT tire and exhaust on my car just for this class. The only reason I decided to run this class is the exposure for the S197 cars and Ford Racing. I could have run MM, but it doesn't just showcase the S197 cars.

Again.........more sarcasm without the (apparently) required smilies. I'll be sure and send you two dozen smilies in a nice FTD bouquet to make up for this horrendous error. :rolleyes: (NOTE: required smilie)

So now you are bitching about a Cobra Jet racing in the class? Give me a f&%#ing break! Purpose built racecar? Yeah, it was purpose built with the intent of showing the racing world Ford is very much involved in DRAG RACING!
Answered it yourself, Slick. Purpose built race car....not a street car.

How is having a trans brake or 2 step taking the driver out of the equation? I suppose the car drives itself when one of these devices is used? Does it shift itself, turn itself? :rolleyes:
Takes the starting line rpm problem out of the equation.

Once again it was sarcasm, but it seems you are too much of a dolt to understand that.
I'll let JimIII fill you in on how big of a mistake you just made with that comment.

[shelton823]

Hey... have you ever seen one of those Miniature Texas Dolts. I'm told they are a very rare, brash, hermit like creature which rarely mates for life.

Had to SD.

[edtootall]

Oh.....I left out the smilies so that means I was "getting my panties in a bunch" and wasn't guilty of sarcasm too. Oh the horror.
Sure looked like it to me.


Again.........more sarcasm without the (apparently) required smilies. I'll be sure and send you two dozen smilies in a nice FTD bouquet to make up for this horrendous error. :rolleyes: (NOTE: required smilie)
Do you need my address?

Answered it yourself, Slick. Purpose built race car....not a street car.

Where in the rules does it say the car must be a street car? Ohhh that's right it doesn't! That's only TRUE STREET!!!

Tell you what SLICK, I'll check with you next time I enter my car in a class. Would that stop the tears?

Takes the starting line rpm problem out of the equation.

So that's the only thing involved in making a pass? Wow all these years of racing and it was as simple as the starting line rpm! I sure hope no one else catches on.

I'll let JimIII fill you in on how big of a mistake you just made with that comment.
Really? I'm pretty sure I'm spot on with your crybaby antics. "Boo Hoo a racecar entered a class that I think should be all street cars."




-:)-

[Joe Cram]

WOW, this thread went way off...........




So Back to the topic at hand, 2 steps.......


I for one don't think they should be allowed, because if they are, the next question is going to be....Can I use a transbrake. The rules say we can use something like a 4r70W and I know they have transbrakes. This would help Auto Cars cut a light and still stage Shallow and not have to roll in deep.

[Joe Cram]

Oh, and everyone play nice.

[edtootall]

WOW, this thread went way off...........




So Back to the topic at hand, 2 steps.......


I for one don't think they should be allowed, because if they are, the next question is going to be....Can I use a transbrake. The rules say we can use something like a 4r70W and I know they have transbrakes. This would help Auto Cars cut a light and still stage Shallow and not have to roll in deep.

Once again I'm fine with it. Just a little sarcasm.

[fairmontology]

Hey... have you ever seen one of those Miniature Texas Dolts. I'm told they are a very rare, brash, hermit like creature which rarely mates for life.

Had to SD.
You've been sitting on that one for a while, haven't you?????? :D

Really? I'm pretty sure I'm spot on with your crybaby antics. "Boo Hoo a racecar entered a class that I think should be all street cars."
Keep digging, Dealer Boy. Your going to be a whole lot of fun.

Oh, and everyone play nice.
Where's the fun in that?

[edtootall]

Keep digging, Dealer Boy. Your going to be a whole lot of fun.




No boys here, but I see the Green Eye'd monster is showing itself. ENVY! Don't worry Skippy, I can get you on the list for a 2010 Cobra Jet. Envy will be a thing of the past if you pick one up.

[NMRA Jason]

SD...Syanford is probably twice your size. :D

[edtootall]

SD...Syanford is probably twice your size. :D

Very funny Mr. Rev'n :D

[NMRA Jason]

Mr. 'wap-wap-wap'. Get it right.

Or...maybe I was just testing the 2-step? LOL

[kdesigns]

Now, where's that "popcorn" smilie?...

:D

[edtootall]

Now, where's that "popcorn" smilie?...

:D

This guy? :D

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/edtootall/popcorn.gif

[fairmontology]

No boys here, but I see the Green Eye'd monster is showing itself. ENVY! Don't worry Skippy, I can get you on the list for a 2010 Cobra Jet. Envy will be a thing of the past if you pick one up.

Who needs a Cobra Jet? I win championships without the factory building me a race car, Scooter. :cool:

SD...Syanford is probably twice your size.
Nutrisystems can help. :D

[edtootall]

Who needs a Cobra Jet? I win championships without the factory building me a race car, Scooter. :cool:


Nutrisystems can help. :D

Who needs a Cobra Jet? Well nobody needs one, but it sure is nice having one. Plus I'd rather have a car that will increase in value instead of decrease.

I'm just gonna call you the Green Goblin since you're so Green with ENVY.

http://geekwhisperin.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/green-goblin.jpg

[V6 HEAT]

So the new question is when can we watch Syanford do the Texas 2-Step on SD? :):eek::rolleyes::p;):D

Oh and did I add the required amount of smiley faces?

[sunkist351]

hay again just to put in my 2 cents. alot of other events do consider a 2 step ok for a foot break comp. they do NOT consider it an aid. again what is the diff. if you bounce it off the rev limiter or have a 2 step. and as far as the cobra jet, nice car, nice showing at atco. but if this is a street car comp. shouldnt that mean that the car should be reg and insured. if thats not in the rules then let the cobra free. and to all the kids in here. in a bracket comp. its not the faster car that wins all the time. its about running your light and knowing your car. ive seen alot of 16-18 sec cars go to semi finals in bracket comps. thats what bracket racing is all about.

[edtootall]

hay again just to put in my 2 cents. alot of other events do consider a 2 step ok for a foot break comp. they do NOT consider it an aid. again what is the diff. if you bounce it off the rev limiter or have a 2 step. and as far as the cobra jet, nice car, nice showing at atco. but if this is a street car comp. shouldnt that mean that the car should be reg and insured. if thats not in the rules then let the cobra free. and to all the kids in here. in a bracket comp. its not the faster car that wins all the time. its about running your light and knowing your car. ive seen alot of 16-18 sec cars go to semi finals in bracket comps. thats what bracket racing is all about.

Wasn't my car at Atco. That was one of Jim's customers cars.

This isn't a "street car" class. It's a S197 class, so that's why I entered. I threw on some DOT tires and had a custom exhaust built just to be legal.

The whole two step debate started as a joke. I was one of maybe 3 stick car in the class. I was trying to make a joke, but I guess I must have touch a nerve with the Green Goblin.

[fairmontology]

Plus I'd rather have a car that will increase in value instead of decrease.
Now it's a collector car. First it was a race car now a collector car. Make up your mind.

I'm just gonna call you the Green Goblin since you're so Green with ENVY.
Sure thing..........DONALD.
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x251/shadowlandsracing/misc%20stuff/Donald20Duck-7267751.jpg
You're a duck anyway.

So the new question is when can we watch Syanford do the Texas 2-Step on SD? :):eek::rolleyes::p;):D
Only thing you need to worry about is your points lead. You're slipping.

Oh and did I add the required amount of smiley faces?
You missed one.......or two. :rolleyes: And you forgot this one.......... http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/ruinkai/flipa.gif
The whole two step debate started as a joke.
As was my first response.....but without the legal number of smilies. That's when CJ Donald got pissy.

[sunkist351]

Wasn't my car at Atco. That was one of Jim's customers cars.

This isn't a "street car" class. It's a S197 class, so that's why I entered. I threw on some DOT tires and had a custom exhaust built just to be legal.

The whole two step debate started as a joke. I was one of maybe 3 stick car in the class. I was trying to make a joke, but I guess I must have touch a nerve with the Green Goblin.

like i said i was just putiing my 2 cents in. i dont even race in this class and thaught it was a good topic. im stuck in side for the last 4 weeks due to extensive rain here in nj, and im loosing my mind. lol but i dont think a 2 step should not be illegal for the stick cars same as using the rev limiter in the car. :p and thats my 2 cents. hay i think that should be a new section in race pages. my 2 cents :D

[germansheperd]

Can I lobby for a transbrake? For us auto street cars to even the field against factory race cars and not being able to leave on the limiter?

[bob7by]

They have a class for all this--- Modular Muscle, run the two step-- trans brake , exactly what you want.

But the SST class has and can be won by stock V-6 daily driver. Kinda embrassing to me but then I have to smile also, because it is a pretty neat class that takes a lot of driving skills or in my case a lot of luck.

IMO and probably shouldn't get into it but the Varsity Ford car I see no problem with but Matt's car very much borders race purpose but then he is a nice guy and great competitor so what do you do? JUST LEAVE SST ALONE except for qualfying. Need something to create interest on qualfying rounds they mean absolutely nothing outside a time run.

[edtootall]

Now it's a collector car. First it was a race car now a collector car. Make up your mind.


1st it's a S197, 2nd it's the flag ship for Ford Racing, 3rd it's a beast that will drag your turbo car down the track and lastly it will always be worth more :D


Can I lobby for a transbrake? For us auto street cars to even the field against factory race cars and not being able to leave on the limiter?

LOL!!! Don't worry I'm gonna work on that leaving on the limiter problem. :D

They have a class for all this--- Modular Muscle, run the two step-- trans brake , exactly what you want.

But the SST class has and can be won by stock V-6 daily driver. Kinda embrassing to me but then I have to smile also, because it is a pretty neat class that takes a lot of driving skills or in my case a lot of luck.

IMO and probably shouldn't get into it but the Varsity Ford car I see no problem with but Matt's car very much borders race purpose but then he is a nice guy and great competitor so what do you do? JUST LEAVE SST ALONE except for qualfying. Need something to create interest on qualfying rounds they mean absolutely nothing outside a time run.

I understand there is always MM, but I like SST because it's all S197 cars. (the best looking cars since the Fox-Bodies :D)

A V-6 winning the class is kind of funny, but it's all fair in love and war.

Thanks Bob, you're a great guy also.

We could make qualifying interesting between the racers. Gamblers reaction time pool? Best average? $10-20 limit.

[ArtQ]

"We could make qualifying interesting between the racers. Gamblers reaction time pool? Best average? $10-20 limit"


I would throw 20 bucks in....

Just one rule, you only get one chance to red light per round:rolleyes:

[Matt D]

A 2 step was used this weekend by a stick car.

WOW, this thread went way off...........




So Back to the topic at hand, 2 steps.......


I for one don't think they should be allowed, because if they are, the next question is going to be....Can I use a transbrake. The rules say we can use something like a 4r70W and I know they have transbrakes. This would help Auto Cars cut a light and still stage Shallow and not have to roll in deep.


Like Jim said, and like I have explained many times on the S197forum, I do not have a 2 step! I was leaving off the 6200 factory limiter. I had my hood popped so everyone could see there was no msd 2 step attached to my coil packs.

I would love to see transbrakes on the autos, I mean you guys are running low 10's leaving off the brake pedal some 9 second runs would be sick!

My car weighed 3240 with me in it, like I explained on the other forum I teched in put my numbers on the window they put me on my scales and sent me to the staging lanes. I was not aware of the 3400lb weight limit and Jim and Sd explained when the class was made that was to keep the body in white race/ pure bracket cars to enter the class and clean house. This is my street car, I even left the plates on it the whole time :)

I won't be attending every race but I will be there for Joilet.

Matt you own a dealership o.O? Maybe that explains the dealer sticker on your cobra jet lol!

I did get my white castle crave box!!!!!

Matt and his cobra jet are fine by me to race, he is a good racer and competition was good at the last event. Plus he is a stick car!

[Joe Cram]

Like Jim said, and like I have explained many times on the S197forum, I do not have a 2 step! I was leaving off the 6200 factory limiter. I had my hood popped so everyone could see there was no msd 2 step attached to my coil packs.

I would love to see transbrakes on the autos, I mean you guys are running low 10's leaving off the brake pedal some 9 second runs would be sick!

My car weighed 3240 with me in it, like I explained on the other forum I teched in put my numbers on the window they put me on my scales and sent me to the staging lanes. I was not aware of the 3400lb weight limit and Jim and Sd explained when the class was made that was to keep the body in white race/ pure bracket cars to enter the class and clean house. This is my street car, I even left the plates on it the whole time :)

I won't be attending every race but I will be there for Joilet.

Matt you own a dealership o.O? Maybe that explains the dealer sticker on your cobra jet lol!

I did get my white castle crave box!!!!!

Matt and his cobra jet are fine by me to race, he is a good racer and competition was good at the last event. Plus he is a stick car!

Matt, I gave you Props for running a consitant car and cutting lights off the Rev Limiter:
Then I stand Corrected. If he's leaving the rev limiter then cudo's to him. That car ran well all weekend and cut some Killer Lights.

there will be another stick car coming back to race in Joilet.



and Lets not forget, the First Race of the year was WON by a STICK CAR.


I don't see a problem with someone coming in under the weight, but the launch aids are not good for the class.

Most will agree that this type of class comes down to the tree in 99% of the races, That's why so many brake pads are getting burned up at the 1300' Mark.

Back to work for me, See everyone at the next race.

Off to do some testing tonight with the new set up.

[edtootall]

Like Jim said, and like I have explained many times on the S197forum, I do not have a 2 step! I was leaving off the 6200 factory limiter. I had my hood popped so everyone could see there was no msd 2 step attached to my coil packs.

I would love to see transbrakes on the autos, I mean you guys are running low 10's leaving off the brake pedal some 9 second runs would be sick!

My car weighed 3240 with me in it, like I explained on the other forum I teched in put my numbers on the window they put me on my scales and sent me to the staging lanes. I was not aware of the 3400lb weight limit and Jim and Sd explained when the class was made that was to keep the body in white race/ pure bracket cars to enter the class and clean house. This is my street car, I even left the plates on it the whole time :)

I won't be attending every race but I will be there for Joilet.

Matt you own a dealership o.O? Maybe that explains the dealer sticker on your cobra jet lol!

I did get my white castle crave box!!!!!

Matt and his cobra jet are fine by me to race, he is a good racer and competition was good at the last event. Plus he is a stick car!

I agree some 9.xx passes would be great to see.

Of course your car only weighed 3240, you only tip the scales at 98lbs for christ sakes. I doubt you hit 100 even after the Crave Case LOL!!!

I don't own Varsity Ford, it's my family's business. I'm just a car salesmen (part of the reason I like to argue :D) for now. Maybe someday I'll get the chance to own one.

Us stick guys need to STICK (pun intended) together. I'm gonna try and hit your event this summer. The Dream Cruise is getting a little boring. I'd rather be racing :D

[Matt D]

I agree some 9.xx passes would be great to see.

Of course your car only weighed 3240, you only tip the scales at 98lbs for christ sakes. I doubt you hit 100 even after the Crave Case LOL!!!

I don't own Varsity Ford, it's my family's business. I'm just a car salesmen (part of the reason I like to argue :D) for now. Maybe someday I'll get the chance to own one.

Us stick guys need to STICK (pun intended) together. I'm gonna try and hit your event this summer. The Dream Cruise is getting a little boring. I'd rather be racing :D

I am 145 lbs give me a break lol

[edtootall]

I am 145 lbs give me a break lol

LOL! Well that's still 90lbs lighter than me. My car tipped the scales at just over 3600 with me in it.

[bob7by]

Originally Posted by Matt D
Like Jim said, and like I have explained many times on the S197forum, I do not have a 2 step! I was leaving off the 6200 factory limiter. I had my hood popped so everyone could see there was no msd 2 step attached to my coil packs.

Just some math explanation the Given by Matt: 26" inch tire - 116 MPH -4.30 Gears - = 6446 RPM

If rev limiter is at 6200 then are you shifting to a higher ratio then 1 to 1. Hmmmmm

I am sure I am missing something !! I am running 4:56 and had to go to 29.2" tire to keep from going to OD and I only run 104-105 MPH which is what peaked my interest.

[ArtQ]

The tires would have to grow 2" for that to work mathematically, but..

"Over all diameter will affect the amount of growth that you will have. There are many variables that contribute to tire growth as well. Unless otherwise noted, Mickey Thompson drag slicks are considered a low growth tire. Mickey Thompson slicks will grow approximately 1 to 1 ½ @ 150mph (Note: Radial slicks do not grow)."

[fairmontology]

.....it's a beast that will drag your turbo car down the track...

You sure about that?

We could make qualifying interesting between the racers. Gamblers reaction time pool? Best average? $10-20 limit.

I'm your Huckleberry. http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/ruinkai/crossbonesgif.gif

[edtootall]

You sure about that?



I'm your Huckleberry. http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/ruinkai/crossbonesgif.gif

Bring your slug to Columbus and my purpose built racecar will drag it down the 1320!

[Joe Cram]

Bring your slug to Columbus and my purpose built racecar will drag it down the 1320!


You want a Driver Mod???????????? :D:D (required Smilie)


I hear Matt D might be available or even Lloyd Mikeska.

[fairmontology]

Bring your slug to Columbus and my purpose built racecar will drag it down the 1320!

Better weld the doors shut on that hyped up factory hot rod, Slick. http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/ruinkai/flipa.gif
{required smilie}


You want a Driver Mod???????????? :D:D (required Smilie)

I hear Matt D might be available or even Lloyd Mikeska.
They can have their shot afterwards. Mighty Mouth has to drive his own car first.
http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/blackeye/lol.gif
{required smilie}

[edtootall]

Better weld the doors shut on that hyped up factory hot rod, Slick. http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/ruinkai/flipa.gif
{required smilie}



They can have their shot afterwards. Mighty Mouth has to drive his own car first.
http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/blackeye/lol.gif
{required smilie}

Blah Blah Blah. :)

[bob7by]

The tires would have to grow 2" for that to work mathematically, but..

"Over all diameter will affect the amount of growth that you will have. There are many variables that contribute to tire growth as well. Unless otherwise noted, Mickey Thompson drag slicks are considered a low growth tire. Mickey Thompson slicks will grow approximately 1 to 1 ½ @ 150mph (Note: Radial slicks do not grow)."

Thanks that would make it equate a little more. For if the rev limiter remains at 6200 it seems Matt is hard pressed to get through the traps without bumping the rev limiter somewhere between a 1000 ' and 1320'.

I did the same thing on a new 2000 model stick car I had ( bumped factory rev limiter at starting line) made about (.6 diff.) but turned the rev limiter off down track. I guess that would be illegal although for our SST class since I would be incorporating the use of two steps on rev limiter.

But thanks on tire growth, I don't think tire growth is that much on DOT tires and I thought I calculated that in. But anyhow give accolades to Matt for bumping the rev limiter on starting it makes a clear advantage in consistency and in my opinion for what ever that's worth is well within the rules.

[FASTMOVER]

3200lbs? 3600lbs?

Where the **** did you guys get these light ass cars? **** I was 3945 when I went 11.36 and I was 3675 after I swaped the DS and took out my factory seats! But I did click off my 10.97!


**** a 2 step, Jim you going to let me run the class next year with a PowerGlide. Can I get a sponsors excemption?

[V6 HEAT]

we could make qualifying interesting between the racers. Gamblers reaction time pool? Best average? $10-20 limit.

I'm in.

[Conrad]

I'm in.

Im not in the class but i would like to bet!!!!!I think i know who would win!!!!

[FASTMOVER]

Im not in the class but i would like to bet!!!!!I think i know who would win!!!!

You could be in the class!

[Adam Smith]

Auto cars deep stage, problem solved.

[V6 HEAT]

Auto cars deep stage, problem solved.

Then your only probelm is if the faster car wants to be a D. Bag and double bulb the slower car - reminder - 99% of the time when a faster car double bulbs a slower car that is deep staging, is because they hope the slower car can't get in deep and ready before the light comes on. Which leads into courtesy staging - but who wants to be nice when we can all be D. Bags. :( :o:confused::rolleyes::mad::p:cool: yada yada yada

[edtootall]

Then your only probelm is if the faster car wants to be a D. Bag and double bulb the slower car - reminder - 99% of the time when a faster car double bulbs a slower car that is deep staging, is because they hope the slower car can't get in deep and ready before the light comes on. Which leads into courtesy staging - but who wants to be nice when we can all be D. Bags. :( :o:confused::rolleyes::mad::p:cool: yada yada yada

Funny you say that, @ Milan the last second to last guy I raced came up to me and said "Hey I deep stage, so don't worry about me", which I thought was cool. I pre-staged and let him do his thing.

I think double bulbing is a dick think to do. Personally I like going in second. Gives me time clear my head.

[V6 HEAT]

Funny you say that, @ Milan the last second to last guy I raced came up to me and said "Hey I deep stage, so don't worry about me", which I thought was cool. I pre-staged and let him do his thing.

I think double bulbing is a dick think to do. Personally I like going in second. Gives me time clear my head.

Cool stuff - I wish everyone thought the same way as you.

Without a mandatory courtesy stage in effect (I'm not meaning DQ'ing someone for it - just back them out to 1 bulb) as a slower car you never know when someone is going to jump in there and double bulb you - so I find myself almost forced to get in there quick myself - only if the faster driver doesen't give a verbal A-OK that they won't be a dick before the run.

[bob7by]

Funny you say that, @ Milan the last second to last guy I raced came up to me and said "Hey I deep stage, so don't worry about me", which I thought was cool. I pre-staged and let him do his thing.

I think double bulbing is a dick think to do. Personally I like going in second. Gives me time clear my head.

That would be me and I favored you by turning on the red. But you Too Tall where very courteous and I appreciate it.

NMCA/NMRA Deep staging rule changes could eliminate 90% of the problem and make it much more competitive, rewarding and enjoyable. It can remain on autostart but let the starter hold the switch until one or both are deep staged then allow the tower computer autostart.

It is very troublesome to torque the engine and deep stage consistently if the autostart is on and the starter is ignoring all deep stages on windows.

I have only lost one round in LM/EFI it was the finals at Maple Grove. Now I am not that good and have been lucky but I asked the starter before the final rounds. Both cars are going DEEP will you wait on us to both get staged before flipping to auto start ? "Yes I will" Well he didn't and I am bumping in last and my light is on. Never again will I depend on the starter to assist my staging unless the NMCA/NMRA changes the rules to promote deep staging in a prudent manner.

Call it Douche Bag or whatever but every racer needs to run his/her own race what the car does in the other lane really is insignificant to your R/T and index ET.

As for me if I am racing you do your own thing whatever makes you happy and comfortable, I am not going to play games with you , I am going deep and I am not worried about when or where or how you get your thing done.

Knowing who is control counterbalances the why and how. Depending on what the starter or the other racer in other lane does is a mute point. Throw the reins down on that Stang and let her do it's thing weather it's 15 seconds or 7 seconds.

Have a nice day !

[V6 HEAT]

Knowing who is control counterbalances the why and how. Depending on what the starter or the other racer in other lane does is a mute point. Throw the reins down on that Stang and let her do it's thing weather it's 15 seconds or 7 seconds.

Have a nice day !


That's some good advice Bobby "Throw the reins down" - another friend recently told me..."Is not the Arrow, is the Indian!"

PS - below is one of my favorite photos from MI! :D

[Adam Smith]

I deep staged in MM for years. I would always tell the guy or girl I was racing that i was going to go deep. So my double bulb to them was really only my pre stage since I still had one more to go. 99% of the time everyone was OK with it. The other 1%, well, they were douche bags and usually ended up on the trailer anyway....:D

[V6 HEAT]

I deep staged in MM for years. I would always tell the guy or girl I was racing that i was going to go deep. So my double bulb to them was really only my pre stage since I still had one more to go. 99% of the time everyone was OK with it. The other 1%, well, they were douche bags and usually ended up on the trailer anyway....:D

During my years racing in the FFW series we never had to worry about the awkward pre-race "hey I'm a deep-stager" conversation since there was a mandatory courtesy stage. But since the rules are set and not changing I've tried both telling the other car and sometimes not telling the other car and there's still D. Bags out there that like to double-bulb and try to mess up the slower car.

I only continue to mention it because it's no fun at all driving 1000 miles for a race and not really knowing if you will have a chance to get staged properly and ready for your run. Especially since I'm the slowest car in the class and my tree will always come on 2-5 seconds before my average competitors.

But I like Bobby's advice on throwing down the reins and that is the plan!!!

I may have a sticker made up "No Douche Bags" for my back window. :rolleyes:

[Adam Smith]

To be competitive deep staging you have to be aggressive on your starting line procedure. Which puts you at a disadvantage immeadiately if you hurry into the beams. You typically do not have the time to bump into the same spot everytime.

[V6 HEAT]

To be competitive deep staging you have to be aggressive on your starting line procedure. Which puts you at a disadvantage immeadiately if you hurry into the beams. You typically do not have the time to bump into the same spot everytime.

I agree 100% and same goes for qualifying/time trial passes - in Atco everyone was bit by the fast tree just as they turned on the stage bulb - there was alomst no time to deep stage. Not much help in working on constistancy under those conditions.

I don't expect anything to change anytime soon - so everyone can do what they feel they need to to win - being the slower car in the current NMRA environment (no mandatory courtesy stage) - I will let each of my competitors know that being the slower car that I plan deep stage and they can either let me get staged and have a fair race (both cars having plenty of time to get staged, torqued up and ready) or they can be a D Bag and have the reins thrown down on them accordingly.

P.S. I hear Double-Bulbing D. Bags are experts at putting their cars on their trailers quickly too - since they usually have no driving skills what-so-ever.

[bob7by]

To be competitive deep staging you have to be aggressive on your starting line procedure. Which puts you at a disadvantage immediately if you hurry into the beams. You typically do not have the time to bump into the same spot every time.

There are some tracks where the starter is great and recognizes the DEEP STAGE on window. Bradenton starter is the best I have witnessed, Bowling Green is not bad. But Maple Grove and ATCO last year where not the best desirable. So I think the slower deep stagers have to get in there fast and not worry about the other racer.

I have addressed this numerous times with Trey, Charlie and even Steve last year especially at NMCA World Finals but to no avail. Most time I am told that NHRA tracks do not recognize deep staging.

I understand it would be difficult to change but a simple request to the starter from NMRA/NMCA stating "there are a lot of index/ET cars that travel a long distance to race with us. Please do your best to observe the deep stagers as noted by window and give them appropriate time to stage." Anyone should get deep staged regularly in 3 seconds max.

I mean what is 3 seconds per race compared to a 2000 mile round trips where a deep stager gets shafted by being courteous and the starter puts the screws in.

The rule for allowing deep staging can remain , a racer must be ready to go. But at Bradenton I felt good about that starter because he allowed us to get in.

Or a mandatory courtesy stage for slower deep stage cars would be as welcome and would help.

Thanks for letting me vent, I am done.

[Conrad]

I race my wifes 99GT convertable in M/M and i stage deep. I tried being nice and no one let me so I go in and light both bulbs and when they light there first bulb I go in deep and try like hell to cut the tree down so to hell with them. I'm double bulbing everyone!!!!!

[Conrad]

You could be in the class!

If I had a car i would be.......Is your car done yet!!

[FASTMOVER]

If I had a car i would be.......Is your car done yet!!

Jim said the rear is going in this week, no reason it won't be ready for the next race!

[bob7by]

I race my wifes 99GT convertable in M/M and i stage deep. I tried being nice and no one let me so I go in and light both bulbs and when they light there first bulb I go in deep and try like hell to cut the tree down so to hell with them. I'm double bulbing everyone!!!!!

There you have it, I don't blame you at all. Without courtesy rules in effect and track starters acknowledging "deep stage" you have no choice.

[NMRA Jason]

From the rulebook..

Staging Rules:
Control of the starting line is the sole discretion of the track starter. Courtesy staging (both pre-stage bulbs lit before any staging bulb lit) is recommended, however not required in all classes that utilize the Auto Start System. The Auto Start System will be activated and utilized in all NMRA classes in 2009. It will be each driver’s responsibility to see that they properly stage with their last staging movement being a forward motion.

Deep staging is permitted, however not necessarily advocated. It is always the driver’s responsibility to stage the vehicle prior to the tree being activated. IN ANY EVENT, THE DRIVER MUST BE PREPARED TO LEAVE AS SOON AS THE FINAL STAGE BULB IS LIT.

A competitor with the word DEEP displayed on the window is not necessarily obligated to DEEP stage. ALL DRIVERS MUST BE PREPARED TO LEAVE ONCE THE FINAL STAGE BULB IS LIT. The final staging motion, using applied power, must be in a forward motion going from pre-stage to stage.

[bob7by]

From the rulebook..

Staging Rules:
Control of the starting line is the sole discretion of the track starter. Courtesy staging (both pre-stage bulbs lit before any staging bulb lit) is recommended, however not required in all classes that utilize the Auto Start System. The Auto Start System will be activated and utilized in all NMRA classes in 2009. It will be each driver’s responsibility to see that they properly stage with their last staging movement being a forward motion.

Deep staging is permitted, however not necessarily advocated. It is always the driver’s responsibility to stage the vehicle prior to the tree being activated. IN ANY EVENT, THE DRIVER MUST BE PREPARED TO LEAVE AS SOON AS THE FINAL STAGE BULB IS LIT.

A competitor with the word DEEP displayed on the window is not necessarily obligated to DEEP stage. ALL DRIVERS MUST BE PREPARED TO LEAVE ONCE THE FINAL STAGE BULB IS LIT. The final staging motion, using applied power, must be in a forward motion going from pre-stage to stage.


Now you have insulted what little intelligence I have. Do you really think I don't know the rules or can't read. The NMCA/NMRA rules for index classes and or ET classe where deep staging is allowed sucks, bottom line.

FFW had mandatory courtesy staging NMCA/NMRA does not. If you re read my posts the I am not asking the NMRA/NMCA to change anything currently in the rules just add to the rules for index ET classes.

[NMRA Jason]

I wasn't attempting to insult anyone, Bobby. I know sometimes our rulebook can be confusing as to where to find things. I was just posting the official rulebook text for everyone in the thread, in case they couldn't find it - I didn't even read the last few posts.

Was just trying to help, sorry if I jumped in where I wasn't wanted.

[Adam Smith]

Nothing will change guys unless you file a rules change. FFW had a mandatory because there entire MM class deep staged because it was a Pro .400 tree. All I can tell you is if you tell your opponent what you plan to do and they don't work with you, well, then they are pretty much an a$$hole. Anyone who tries to jump in first simply to screw up a guy who has told him he is trying to go deep, well, your arent a sportsman who wants to win fair and square. You are a pathetic excuse for a racer. And mostly likely not a very good racer either. A true racer doesnt need to pull crap like that to win. They have the car and the ability to win races and thats what they rely on. I'll get off my soapbox now. :)

[Adam Smith]

I wasn't attempting to insult anyone, Bobby. I know sometimes our rulebook can be confusing as to where to find things. I was just posting the official rulebook text for everyone in the thread, in case they couldn't find it - I didn't even read the last few posts.

Was just trying to help, sorry if I jumped in where I wasn't wanted.

What if I like it when you insult me big guy....:D :p

[bob7by]

I wasn't attempting to insult anyone, Bobby. I know sometimes our rulebook can be confusing as to where to find things. I was just posting the official rulebook text for everyone in the thread, in case they couldn't find it - I didn't even read the last few posts.

Was just trying to help, sorry if I jumped in where I wasn't wanted.

Obviously, from what others have posted they know the rules and it doesn't have anything to do with if your wanted or not :confused:, the problem is not everyone courtesy stages so it makes everyone that is going deep jump in without regards to courtesy. Posting the rules doesn't help I assure you the racers on this discussion know the rules. What would help is a mandatory courtesy staging rule for the last bulb to be turned on. Then index/ ET racers can travel 2000 miles and know they are going to at least have opportunity for a FAIR race.

In other words I have been arguing this for 2 years now, ----that it is IMPOSSIBLE to courtesy stage if going deep because not everyone courtesy stages and waits on the slower deep stage car. It would only take a little effort on NMCA/NMRA part to add a mandatory courtesy for last bulb. I believe everyone knows well what that means.

It is that simple and I have no idea why I got started on this again. I refrained when Chris started the discussion before and should have just kept quiet this time. The NMRA/NMCA does not want to hear about it so it is a mute point. It will be like Conrad basically said " Let's get it on" with out regards for courtesy staging.

The way the NMCA/NMRA rules are as you have posted above DICTATES the real race is from the water box to the last bulb lit for slower deep stage cars. Lose that race from water box to the last bulb lit and you can forget about the 1320. JUST ADD THE WORD MANDATORY courtesy staging for last bulb to be lit.

I do hope you respond and thanks for your interest.

[NMRA Jason]

Here's something to think about, Bobby...we got three submissions for midseason rules requests for this class.

And not one of them included anything about mandatory courtesy staging.

Remember that this is an entry-level class designed to get those of you with S197-newer cars out of the parking lot and onto the racetrack. It's not really designed for the professional bracket racer.

[Joe Cram]

Nothing will change guys unless you file a rules change. FFW had a mandatory because there entire MM class deep staged because it was a Pro .400 tree. All I can tell you is if you tell your opponent what you plan to do and they don't work with you, well, then they are pretty much an a$$hole. Anyone who tries to jump in first simply to screw up a guy who has told him he is trying to go deep, well, your arent a sportsman who wants to win fair and square. You are a pathetic excuse for a racer. And mostly likely not a very good racer either. A true racer doesnt need to pull crap like that to win. They have the car and the ability to win races and thats what they rely on. I'll get off my soapbox now. :)

What to do when BOTH cars are going DEEP. The way I am seeing people complain on here, it should be a rule that the Slower cars get to go in deep first!

Some folks don't understand, just because some have a fast car, doesn't mean they react well to a .500 Pro tree. Some of us with Quicker cars need to be able to go deep to cut a light.

In a class where 99% of these races are coming down to what you did at the tree, Everyone is going to do what they have to to cut the tree down!

Courtesy Staging would be nice, Until it is Mandatory, I Don't think it will happen.

What I, Personally, have been doing being almost 2-3+ seconds faster is, allowing the slower car to go in deep first, and just using my time at the tree to roll deep, But when the tree drops, You gotta Be ready to Leave, and this is why people are Double and Triple Bulbing folks.


just to add a bit, I drive 2500 + Miles round trip From Houston, Texas to Every race with the NMRA, if we get beat then we get beat, but to lose to someone who played games at the tree............ that's unacceptable!

[fairmontology]

To be competitive deep staging you have to be aggressive on your starting line procedure. Which puts you at a disadvantage immeadiately if you hurry into the beams. You typically do not have the time to bump into the same spot everytime.
Depends on how much time you spend practicing on your staging.

JUST ADD THE WORD MANDATORY courtesy staging for last bulb to be lit.
Or the NMRA/NMCA could hire their own official starter(s). With the current employee count I honestly cannot see why this would NOT be a great idea.

Remember that this is an entry-level class designed to get those of you with S197-newer cars out of the parking lot and onto the racetrack. It's not really designed for the professional bracket racer.
And nothing pisses off an entry-level racer more than getting screwed over in the first round at their first race. Then their second race. IF they decide to try a third time and they get screwed at the tree........you get the idea. They don't come back.

Everyone knows that a majority of these cars need to deep stage in order to get a decent reaction time. Track starters are notorious for not giving a damn about deep staging. We ran into that forever at FFW during test/tune and time trials when the track's starter was running the starting line. When our official qualifying came around we knew that Sammy Latner was at the switch and knew how each class staged. Would it be too much of a problem to hire an official starter for NMRA and one for NMCA?

[bob7by]

Remember that this is an entry-level class designed to get those of you with S197-newer cars out of the parking lot and onto the racetrack. It's not really designed for the professional bracket racer.

I give up too much difference in opinion, you win. The problem is out of the parking lot does not include 1000-2000 mile round trips. And how many former World Champion regulars many times over are in this "entry level" group.

Jason, We are only trying to help the NMRA/NMCA keep all competition on an equal basis which includes the locals off the parking lot being able to compete with the circuit racers.

It's like SD said a new racer comes in and he/she may not feel like they where treated very courteous at the line. And I ask whose fault is that ?

I like being nice but I can do that at home and save a lot of money. The problem is the NMRA/NMCA rule for DEEP staging makes it difficult to be nice.

I am really done this time , honest. Thanks and have a nice day.

[bob7by]

Would it be too much of a problem to hire an official starter for NMRA and one for NMCA?

Please please please if the NSCA could even do this why hasn't the NMCA/NMRA ???? It is not a new problem just others solved it.

[V6 HEAT]

Okay Jason - we all messed up and didn't submit mid-year rules changes but I can GUARANTEE I will when the next opportunity rises and I'm sure a majority of the cars in this and the other ET classes will.

Also, I have to laugh every time I hear the statement "Remember that this is an entry-level class designed to get those of you with S197-newer cars out of the parking lot and onto the racetrack. It's not really designed for the professional bracket racer."

IMHO - The cars in the parking lot are most likely get involved in the Brackets before they get into any of the year-long points classes.

Shoot; Me, SD, Paul G, Don J are all past FFW world champions and all run this class - should we all not enter in SST?

I think the class is designed for whoever can fit in the rules and is willing to take all their vacation time from work and spend every last spare penny to travel and support the sponsors and series.

We all just want a fair race and were used to an official starter at FFW that would let both cars get staged and ready before the possibility that the tree would flash on you and ruin any chance at getting a win light. And since we all love to race - we will live with the current rules. But since these threads are so easy to voice our opinions, you're going to continue to see what bothers us the most - simple Psych 101.

See everyone in 3 weeks - and don't forget that Atco Inside Drag Racing will be on FSN tomorrow at 11:30AM and Monday 4:30PM. :D

[NMRA Jason]

Typing on my blackberry, so I'll make it short.

Thanks to all of you (Bobby, Chris, even you, SD :D) for opening my eyes and making me look at it in a different way. Make sure you all put those submissions in for the end of the year.

Appreciate the input on things I don't always think about.

[Adam Smith]

Depends on how much time you spend practicing on your staging.
Would it be too much of a problem to hire an official starter for NMRA and one for NMCA?

Couple things here:
1. SD, no it doesn't depend, you cant get staged properly when the other guy is already fully staged, I have been there, done that, MANY times over.

2. No offense guys but I would really stop using FFW as some kind of a "ford drag racing series guidebook". I don't think their set up worked out too well....the NMRA is not going to follow in the footsteps of a series that is no longer operating. Just my .02:)

[fairmontology]

Couple things here:
1. SD, no it doesn't depend, you cant get staged properly when the other guy is already fully staged, I have been there, done that, MANY times over.
Yes, Adam, it does. I first encountered this problem back in 2002 at NMRA Reynolds. The starter looked right at me when I pointed to the "DEEP" on the windows and shook his head "OK". Then flipped the tree as soon as the second bulb was on. I made it a point to work on regular deep staging along with a way to counter the quick tree tactics of some starters. It can be done. I've done it in a slow car (my old '98 with a transbrake) and in quick cars (my twin turbo car).


2. No offense guys but I would really stop using FFW as some kind of a "ford drag racing series guidebook". I don't think their set up worked out too well....the NMRA is not going to follow in the footsteps of a series that is no longer operating. Just my .02:)
Fun Ford's business practices may have been suspect but there were several of their race procedures that worked flawlessly. Sammy Latner as the official starter for all race classes (and the track's people working the brackets) worked great. He knew the classes, the cars, the staging techniques, and the racers. Kim (Pinto) Panepinto as Race Director did an outstanding job getting the race completed in a timely fashion and worked with racers to alleviate problems and complaints. He wasn't always popular, nor were his decisions, but the man knows how to run a race. Hell, we got the 2006 Epping, NH race done in ONE DAY because of a storm front that was on the way for Sunday. Time trials, two rounds of qualifying, brackets, showdown, car show, True Street, and winner's pictures all in one day. Plus, we got the lobster boil underway before the rain began.

NMRA/NMCA is an outstanding organization that is run extremely well and that is plainly clear. The success of this organization speaks for itself. However, this is one instance where an example from another organization could (and should) be looked at in order to improve a certain problem situation.

[Adam Smith]

Ok dude, your the man.

[fairmontology]

Adam.....I wasn't bragging. I am simply saying (without giving away any kind of advantages it may give me) that it can be done. Takes a buttload of practice both at the track and in the driveway but there is a way.

[Adam Smith]

What your saying can't be done in a bracket class. So what do you base your dial on? Deep regular staging or deep staging?? Sorry but you would be all over the place.Doesn't make any sense. I am talking about footbraking too, no transbrake.

[fairmontology]

Yes, it can. Footbrake, rolling in to deep stage. Top light on, bring the rpm's to the launch rpm, use the foot brake to roll through the second stage bulb until you go deep.

Just like Carnegie Hall.....practice, man......practice.

[againstallodds1]

Okay Jason - we all messed up and didn't submit mid-year rules changes but I can GUARANTEE I will when the next opportunity rises and I'm sure a majority of the cars in this and the other ET classes will.

Also, I have to laugh every time I hear the statement "Remember that this is an entry-level class designed to get those of you with S197-newer cars out of the parking lot and onto the racetrack. It's not really designed for the professional bracket racer."

IMHO - The cars in the parking lot are most likely get involved in the Brackets before they get into any of the year-long points classes.

Shoot; Me, SD, Paul G, Don J are all past FFW world champions and all run this class - should we all not enter in SST?

I think the class is designed for whoever can fit in the rules and is willing to take all their vacation time from work and spend every last spare penny to travel and support the sponsors and series.

We all just want a fair race and were used to an official starter at FFW that would let both cars get staged and ready before the possibility that the tree would flash on you and ruin any chance at getting a win light. And since we all love to race - we will live with the current rules. But since these threads are so easy to voice our opinions, you're going to continue to see what bothers us the most - simple Psych 101.

See everyone in 3 weeks - and don't forget that Atco Inside Drag Racing will be on FSN tomorrow at 11:30AM and Monday 4:30PM. :D

Does anyone know why NMCA is on today instead of the NMRA race?

[bob7by]

Does anyone know why NMCA is on today instead of the NMRA race?

NMRA all class finals and more is at the end. Hope you got to see it. Only Pro Street Bradenton for NMCA

[Joe Cram]

Here's an Idea, Let's eliminate Deep Staging all Together, then we don't have to worry about it.

[fairmontology]

Here's an Idea, Let's eliminate Deep Staging all Together, then we don't have to worry about it.

Ideas On How To Kill A Class - 101

Instructor: Joe Cram

Days: Any day of the phuckin' week.

Hours: Usually after happy hour has ended.

[shelton823]

Laughed out loud on that last one. My only quibble would be that I am positive Joe could teach that class at the 200 level.

[Adam Smith]

Here's an Idea, Let's eliminate Deep Staging all Together, then we don't have to worry about it.

Unfortunately Joe, a footbraked automatic cannot react fast enough on a Pro.500 tree.

Wheeler, sorry man, not gonna argue with you, we are gonna have to agree to disagree.

[KenB]

Unfortunately Joe, a footbraked automatic cannot react fast enough on a Pro.500 tree.

Wheeler, sorry man, not gonna argue with you, we are gonna have to agree to disagree.

What's your definition of 'fast enough'? Compared to what? Isn't everyone using a footbrake in this class? If you're comparing it to a stick car, they may have a slight advantage in reaction time but the auto should even the playing field for consistency. It's all a trade off at some point.

Personally I think things are fine the way they are.

[KenB]

I think the class is designed for whoever can fit in the rules...

Exactly

We all just want a fair race

Fair according to who? Why should the non deep staging have to change his routine to help you out? Just curious as to your logic.

Your problem is the lights might come too quick but for the non deep stager with your rule suggestion his problem is he may have to sit longer than normal.


SD said he can do just fine under the rules the way they are. So if he can do it so can you.

[bob7by]

Unfortunately Joe, a footbraked automatic cannot react fast enough on a Pro.500 tree.

Wheeler, sorry man, not gonna argue with you, we are gonna have to agree to disagree.

There are always differences to the general rule. I agree with your assessment but Larry Russel Jr. never deep stages in a 15 second car and never lost but one race last year with 0 R/T's as the norm.

He is the 2008 SST World Champ. Call it lucky or good but that my friend is why we race.

However, your bottom line assessment is true and that is why the Deep stage rule need to be changed or give us a prudent SERIES starter. Oops I was done long ago, it is EARLY morning forgive me.

[Tony Corley]

I was always under the understanding that once the top bulbs were lit in each lane, it was completely legit to go ahead and stage. If you are going to go in deep from that point, and I'm not, it is not playing games or unfair if I go ahead and turn the 2nd bulb on. It is racing, and it is up to you to have your technique perfected for deep staging. What happens if you tell me you are going to stage deep, I wait on you and then you don't, stay shallow, and I have to rush to get in, or worse, don't make it in? Staging strategies are a part of racing.
As far as the trans brake/2 step issue, I don't see anything in the rules that would not allow for dual caliper brakes like on turbo cars. That and the correct convertor stall would allow you to leave at the same rpm every time.

[V6 HEAT]

Fair according to who? Why should the non deep staging have to change his routine to help you out? Just curious as to your logic.

Your problem is the lights might come too quick but for the non deep stager with your rule suggestion his problem is he may have to sit longer than normal.


SD said he can do just fine under the rules the way they are. So if he can do it so can you.

Logic:

Do you open doors for old ladies?

Do you pull the chair out for you wife or girlfriend at a resturant?

Do you let the person in line with 2 items behind you go infront of you when you have a full basket of stuff at the store?

I do all the above because I'm courteous. Here's the definition of courteous: marked by respect for and consideration of others.

I've been racing long enough to know in a pro-tree environment that without a courteous stage rule in place - a faster car can be a D.Bag and try to mess with the other cars chances at getting staged properly by double bulbing. When a faster car double bulbs a slower car - it gives the slower car a harder time to try and get staged - because the pro-tree may come on almost instantly after they get the 2nd light on - nearly making it impossible to get in deep - if he wanted to. This making double bulbing non-courteous.

I've been racing since 1990 and have figured out how to deal with it and still win races. I understand that the rules are what they are for this season. But please understand - I'm not looking for an advantage - I'm just looking for a fair race....when both cars are in the ready, set position and torqued up ready to go. Let the race be reacting to the tree and who can get to the finish line first without breaking out....NOT who can get out of the water-box and up in the staging beams first!

I didn't come up with the term courtesy staging - others did after getting dicked-over so many times by D. Bags in the past.

[Tony Corley]

And guys, if you want to be positive that everyone is on a fair playing field, you should legalize 2 steps. That way everyone has them. I don't condone cheating, but in this class with your electronic throttles, I would think it would be very easy to program(ie through the traction control function maybe) and virtually impossible to detect if some one has a program that would limit throttle opening and thus rpm's on the starting line, without any issues or "sounds" of a 2 step coming from the car. Thus, once again, foot on the floor and rpm's consistent. At least a 2 step being legal would make you know for a fact that you were on a level playing field.

[V6 HEAT]

And guys, if you want to be positive that everyone is on a fair playing field, you should legalize 2 steps. That way everyone has them. I don't condone cheating, but in this class with your electronic throttles, I would think it would be very easy to program(ie through the traction control function maybe) and virtually impossible to detect if some one has a program that would limit throttle opening and thus rpm's on the starting line, without any issues or "sounds" of a 2 step coming from the car. Thus, once again, foot on the floor and rpm's consistent. At least a 2 step being legal would make you know for a fact that you were on a level playing field.

If someone has to cheat to win - they probably have very little skills as a driver. (Same as Double-Bulbing D Bags) So unless the possible cheaters figure a way to dial their car in properly, judge the finishline and decide when to get on the brakes or push someone out at the finish line - I feel confident that possible cheaters that may use undetecable 2-steps will probably lose most races anyway and Karma will bite them too eventually.

I'm comfortable with the class staying a foot-brake class myself.

[FASTMOVER]

Just so you know, I always double bulb, just to be consistant! Just kidding, Guys it is a dead horse, bring it up at the end of the year. Although I won't be in your class next year so I will leave it alone.
C

[V6 HEAT]

Just so you know, I always double bulb, just to be consistant! Just kidding, Guys it is a dead horse, bring it up at the end of the year. Although I won't be in your class next year so I will leave it alone.
C

Yes, it's a dead horse Matters & I feel like I'm in an episode of the Twilite Zone when I try to explain it anyways.

But since we have to pass our time somehow till Joliet.....what better way than educating DBDB's.

[Joe Cram]

Unfortunately Joe, a footbraked automatic cannot react fast enough on a Pro.500 tree.



Great, so then we only have to worry about running our Number!!!!!!!!!

It just seems that every time there is something good for us "Slow" Guys, Someone's got to complain and make it worse. Let's just leave the rules alone and keep racing while we have someplace to race.

[V6 HEAT]

[QUOTE=Joe Cram;410911]Great, so then we only have to worry about running our Number!!!!!!!!!
QUOTE]

Each car has a different roll out (depending on tire height) also each car has a different VRT (Vehicle Reaction Time) and each driver has a variance in their DRT (Driver Reaction Time). That's why everyone utilizes different methods of staging. Eliminating deepstaging is not the answer. But being courtous isn't that bad of a request! :rolleyes:

If you want to learn a little more on staging - click below:

http://www.staginglight.com/guide/react.html

[fairmontology]

I believe that Chris' main complaint is the racers who rush to the beams and roll in deep before their opponent has the top bulb on. That's a bit chickensh!t. Those are the guys who are going to be sitting there a while.

As long as someone puts the top bulb on then waits for me to do so (and vice-versa) everything after that is fair game. In my view, that is Courtesy Staging.

Wheeler, sorry man, not gonna argue with you, we are gonna have to agree to disagree.

Not a problem.

[Joe Cram]

[QUOTE=Joe Cram;410911]Great, so then we only have to worry about running our Number!!!!!!!!!
QUOTE]

Each car has a different roll out (depending on tire height) also each car has a different VRT (Vehicle Reaction Time) and each driver has a variance in their DRT (Driver Reaction Time). That's why everyone utilizes different methods of staging. Eliminating deepstaging is not the answer. But being courtous isn't that bad of a request! :rolleyes:

If you want to learn a little more on staging - click below:

http://www.staginglight.com/guide/react.html


I know how to race, I know how to Stage!

But I do find it funny that you of all people are the one pushing this subject. I was going to stay out of this, but you don't understand........

YOU are the one that was Double and Triple BULBING folks, Not the other way around! You were the one playing starting line Games with others. You are the one doing the Most complaining, and yet have had great success so far this year, What about those you double and Triple Bulbed? How have they faired? You are the one that has had confrontations over these Staging procedures. You continue to harp on being the slower car, then make it faster, this IS DRAG RACING! I saw another V6 in Milan with almost a full second quicker Dial in on his car, yet you 2 have almost the exact same modifications done to your vehicles!


Look on the other side of things Chris, How do you think this class full of people with ADHD, ( so you can read more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention-deficit_hyperactivity_disorder)
Feel Having to sit and wait for 4-5 Seconds while you take a Sunday stroll down the track? Sure it's our choice to have quicker cars, and it's your choice to have a slower car, but this is DRAG RACING. I don't go to the National Events to watch some 15-18 second cars go down the track, I go to see quick cars.


What we really need is an ET cap on this class. This class is to help show the performance that these newer S197 cars can archive while still being streetable!



Have a pleasant day.

[fairmontology]

Where's my beer? Who's got nachos? This is gonna get good real quick. ;)



Nachos rule.

[Joe Cram]

And you know what, some of what I said is Wrong, I'll admit it.

It's not a problem to have V6 cars in this class, it does bring more cars and someone else mentioned to me, they could some day be Pure street or Outlaw drivers, We all need a place to start.

[fairmontology]

Crawfishin' already? Come on, man.................don't let me be the only one to start sh!t.

[Joe Cram]

Crawfishin' already? Come on, man.................don't let me be the only one to start sh!t.

No craw fishing here.......

I don't have a problem with the Cars, I have a Problem with a Driver that does one thing and then ask's everyone else not to do it, or can I please do it first!


I can deal with the ADHD at the line, but someone playing games and then saying it is because my Car is slower....... That's the problem!

[FASTMOVER]

SD pass me a beer, I'm in!

[fairmontology]

SD pass me a beer, I'm in!

Catch. Now....how long before Parisi chimes in? (...and no, that's not a bet so don't ask)

[V6 HEAT]

Joe - I think it's been stated on this thread that since there isn't courtesy staging - that everyone is forced to do a free-for-all and get in ASAP - After 2 drivers double bulbed me in NJ - I just couldn't sit back and let it continue to happen. If I was racing you or Don or Paul G or SD - we all have a FFW history and were use to it being a very fair system - you have to agree with that. Here's one of my favorite photos from FFW 2007 - if everyone looks closely - we both have Dyno Joe stickers on our windows and yes you are in Deep - the race was fair and you were Deep staged Bra.

I posted the link for tips on how to stage because I read that a few years ago and got alot out of it. Sorry you took it wrong.

As for capping the class - I think you missed the mid season rules submission deadline. Shoot for next season.

Maybe I should be like Bobby and try and be silent.

By the way - I have almost 60,000 miles on my car and drive it to and from all events and to and from work every day. Your comments about me and my car are a little low brother. V6 Mustangs are economic and I've been able to get down into the 13's with her. But since I need to get in my car (not my tow-vehicle) and drive home every event - I have to resort to going a little slower sometimes. And the other V6 in Milan was dialed 14.90's and I was in the 15.40's that's only 1/2 second. I'm a little bigger than Larry and he also had a trailer to get him home.

Like Bobby and Tom C said - GAME ON. I look forward to Joliet even more now - See you in 16 days.

[V6 HEAT]

No craw fishing here.......

I don't have a problem with the Cars, I have a Problem with a Driver that does one thing and then ask's everyone else not to do it, or can I please do it first!


I can deal with the ADHD at the line, but someone playing games and then saying it is because my Car is slower....... That's the problem!

I never played a game - EVER!!! Twice in NJ I was held up from staging - once 1st round when there was water on the track in front of me and then again in the 3rd round when my dial in was not on the board. Both times I was held up - I DID NOT PLAY GAMES!!!!!

I'm not asking to people to do one thing then me do another - I'm asking for us to be courteus to one another - if that is not going to be the rule then I need to join the anarchy and do what I have to to get staged!!!!

[fairmontology]

Now we've got a fued. :D

[V6 HEAT]

All we have is a long thread that's helping pass the time till Joilet. Like I said earlier - it's like the Twilight Zone.

I'm gonna try to be like Bobby B. and keep my opinions to myself - from now on.

Unless, someone says I play games - then I will defend the facts till the bitter end.

[Donut]

Unless, someone says I play games - then I will defend the facts till the bitter end.

So you're saying that you don't play games at events? How do you explain this picture then?



















http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/guttedhatch/poker1.jpg

:p

[fairmontology]

That's not a game to Chris. That's a side job.

;)

[V6 HEAT]

Oh no - I'm busted. I really love to play games!!!

[larz]

CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG? larz:D

[Adam Smith]

All I am saying is I deep staged for years, I learned how to do it. It wasn't always pretty, but I made it work. If you aren't willing(or can't) run a transbrake in an automatic car on a Pro.500 tree, you are at a disadvantage to every stick car out there, plain and simple. The end.

Ken, if you tree the crap out of me everytime, it doesn't even matter if I run dead on my number. You are still gonna win and can be off your number too.

[KenB]

Logic:

Do you open doors for old ladies?



Yes because they are old and may need help and I'm not in competition with them to get through the door first.

Do you pull the chair out for you wife or girlfriend at a resturant?


Yes again. But that is because I'm not in a competition to see who sits down first.

Do you let the person in line with 2 items behind you go infront of you when you have a full basket of stuff at the store?


No unless she's hot. :)

I do all the above because I'm courteous. Here's the definition of courteous: marked by respect for and consideration of others.

I'm all about being courteous in life. But when it's comes to competition I don't really see how these mix.


To be clear on my post though, I totally support courtesy staging. I do not support a deep staging rule of any kind. If you want to go deep, you better to be able to get in in the time allotted to all racers regardless of what is on their windshield.

[KenB]

Ken, if you tree the crap out of me everytime, it doesn't even matter if I run dead on my number. You are still gonna win and can be off your number too.

If I tree the crap out of you everytime I should win because I'm a better racer. If you can't cut a light, practice. If the car is the problem, work on the car. If you don't want to work on the car, take up track and field.


Personally, I like getting doubled bulbed because I will let that person sit there for a loooooong time. In your case Chris, you can let them sit there for quite awhile before you stage, then they will probably sit there for a few seconds during your head start. I can't see that person cutting a good light sitting there that long.

[fairmontology]

Be right back.....need more beer........and another round of nachos.

[fairmontology]

CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG? larz:D

Where's the fun in that??????

[FASTMOVER]

Where's the fun in that??????

Funny when you make up, them Double Bulb 'em.

THATS FUNNY!

[V6 HEAT]

I'm all about being courteous in life. But when it's comes to competition I don't really see how these mix.


To be clear on my post though, I totally support courtesy staging. I do not support a deep staging rule of any kind. If you want to go deep, you better to be able to get in in the time allotted to all racers regardless of what is on their windshield.

Whats funny about all this is that I actually won the event (Atco, NJ) that caused me all the greif and made me start posting about courtesy staging. It started in the 1st round after both me and my competition did our burnouts - I was held up by the official because of water on the track that was left by the previous car's tailpipes. While I was held up I watched my competitor go in Deep -while I was stuck waiting for my lane to get dried. Then in the 3rd round after both I and my competitor did our burnouts - we both sped up to where the starter was standing and were frozen there because neither of our dial ins were on the boards. I could hear the starter speaking to the tower and giving them our dial ins - but then only one dial in popped up (my competitor's) - so then he went in Deep and I was stuck sitting there waiting for my dial in to get posted. Now here's the funny part. The guy that I beat in the 1st round was sitting in the stands watching my 3rd round pass and he was still bitter about his 1st round loss. He actually had doubts that I was really held up during the 1st round because of a wet track and for some crazy reason he thought I should have been timed out (1st round) after he went in deep and sat there for about 30 seconds (he thought I was playing games) - which I wasn't. So back to the funny part - he was now watching from the grandstands during the 3rd round and from a side perspective - he thought I was playing staging games during the 3rd round because I wouldn't stage. It actually looked that way because the starter was waiving me forward after my competitor was in deep and my dial in was still NOT on the board yet - I actually had to roll down my window and argue with the starter - I said "I can't take the tree without a dial in!" right as I said that - my dial in finally popped up....at that point I went in one bulb - then had to quickly deepstage (since the pro tree was coming on quick in Atco when the 2nd bulb got lit). I won that round and then in the pits - the guy from the 1st round had a confrontation with me and verbally accused me of playing games and asked me "is that the only way I know how to win?" - it really pissed me off - especially since he was the one that double bulbed me and then he had the facts 100% wrong - not realizing that I was held by an official the 1st round and not realizing that I didn't have a dial in the 2nd round....

I went thru this long story again for 2 reasons - One, to clear the air for Dyno Joe (please never say I played games again) what I did was not playing games - it was 2 situations that were out of my control. Plus even if you win - you can still have an opionon on Double Bulbing D Bags!!! And the 2nd reason is for you Ken - I agree that no matter what's on the window - you better get in deep because you are in competition with them - but in my 2 cases - even though I won - a courtesy stage rule would have prevented them from getting in deep and forcing me to have to quick-deep-stage. And it caused me alot of greif and an altercation in the pits.

Oh yeah - I'm gonna keep quiet like Bobby- NOT.....See everyone in Joliet.

[V6 HEAT]

[QUOTE=V6 HEAT;410913]


Look on the other side of things Chris, How do you think this class full of people with ADHD, ( so you can read more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention-deficit_hyperactivity_disorder)
Feel Having to sit and wait for 4-5 Seconds while you take a Sunday stroll down the track? Sure it's our choice to have quicker cars, and it's your choice to have a slower car, but this is DRAG RACING. I don't go to the National Events to watch some 15-18 second cars go down the track, I go to see quick cars.

What we really need is an ET cap on this class. This class is to help show the performance that these newer S197 cars can archive while still being streetable!

Have a pleasant day.

P.S. Joe - thanks for the link on ADHD - it may help educate some people of a common problem some kids and adults have to deal with. My 10 year-old son was diagnosed with it a few years ago and takes 30mg of Vyvanse each morning before he goes to school - it took some trial and error to get his medication just right - but his grades improved and he can concentrate much better than before. I'm not sure if your doctors have offered anything to you - or if it's something you just deal with - either way I think you've done pretty well yourself over the years racing with it- we're like 50/50 vs each other and aren't you 3rd in points this year too? And if I had to take an educated guess - I don't think our class is full of folks with ADHD - I would guess maybe a couple - but not a majority.

Plus we've had a phone conversation about it about a month ago - I wouldn't mind swapping cars one event and seeing how we would fair. I did have a pretty quick stang in the past and wouldn't mind chasing you down with your own car. :cool:

[Adam Smith]

If I tree the crap out of you everytime I should win because I'm a better racer. If you can't cut a light, practice. If the car is the problem, work on the car. If you don't want to work on the car, take up track and field.

Have you ever seen me run? That sorta shoots that idea in the butt. I too am all for courtesy staging. I am saying that if you choose to go deep or have to go deep then you need to accept the responsibility that goes with it. Meaning communicate, mark your windows, get in the beams 1st, etc etc. Thats about all you can do.

Cutting a better light doesn't mean you're a better racer, its means you were better that round, or lucky. An automatic car with a stock converter and no brake is tough to consistently cut a decent light on a Pro .500 tree. Decent meaning .20-.30. Anything under that was pure luck and you took a shot at the tree.

[Joe Cram]

Have you ever seen me run? That sorta shoots that idea in the butt. I too am all for courtesy staging. I am saying that if you choose to go deep or have to go deep then you need to accept the responsibility that goes with it. Meaning communicate, mark your windows, get in the beams 1st, etc etc. Thats about all you can do.

Cutting a better light doesn't mean you're a better racer, its means you were better that round, or lucky. An automatic car with a stock converter and no brake is tough to consistently cut a decent light on a Pro .500 tree. Decent meaning .20-.30. Anything under that was pure luck and you took a shot at the tree.


Adam, I don't know you from Adam ( I know, hahaha) but do you run in this class?

Just curious.

[fairmontology]

Decent meaning .20-.30. Anything under that was pure luck and you took a shot at the tree.

Again...we will have to agree to disagree.

[Donut]

Have you ever seen me run? That sorta shoots that idea in the butt. I too am all for courtesy staging. I am saying that if you choose to go deep or have to go deep then you need to accept the responsibility that goes with it. Meaning communicate, mark your windows, get in the beams 1st, etc etc. Thats about all you can do.

Cutting a better light doesn't mean you're a better racer, its means you were better that round, or lucky. An automatic car with a stock converter and no brake is tough to consistently cut a decent light on a Pro .500 tree. Decent meaning .20-.30. Anything under that was pure luck and you took a shot at the tree.

Adam - In the '90 LX, rock stock, AOD, I was consistently in the .0XX's, on a .400 Pro Tree. That would put me consistently red on a .500 pro tree...

[bob7by]

Again...we will have to agree to disagree.

Everyone knows YOU screw everything up. Your like the one student in class that keeps acing 99 or 100's when the teacher is grading on the curve. I checked you out a long time ago and watched all those .00X lights and thought what's up. Remember ? I e-mailed you asking if you ever turned the red on ?

So you have set a standard by which many ( and I am not one of them) that many SST racers are laying the tree over consistently. So I agree those of us not there ,---we need to practice more and tighten the slack in the car up more.

But the rule change request is not for the many veteran racers in the class. The veterans are going to find a way to stage and win, that is a given and not the problem. They ( veterans) just don't want to do it in an uncourteous manner but until changes are made. Racers have 7-8 seconds to get in depending on where Lynwood has the timeout set and fast cars or those staging last can't wait forever.

It would be a NICE(ER) ENTRY LEVEL if there was courtesy staging but until the NMRA/NMCA enforces that well at race time it is Katy bar the door for everyone is on his/her own. Let the games begin or continue what ever.

[V6 HEAT]

Hey Bobby - if you said the Sun rises in the East and sets in the west I would get it also. But some things are just too easy to explain.:rolleyes:

Didn't we take a vow of silence on this subject ? ;) -at least till the year end rule change submissions....:)

[bob7by]

Hey Bobby - if you said

Didn't we take a vow of silence on this subject ? ;) -at least till the year end rule change submissions....:)

But that was yes-ter-day and that's gone. It seemed some folks thought the rule request was for advantaging the veterans, not so it is simply to be NICE but sometimes there has to be rules or laws to enforce just being ABLE to be nice. Maybe NICE and RACE is an oxymoron.

[fairmontology]

Everyone knows YOU screw everything up. Your like the one student in class that keeps acing 99 or 100's when the teacher is grading on the curve.
I was a problem child long before I obtained a driver's license. :D

I checked you out a long time ago and watched all those .00X lights and thought what's up. Remember ? I e-mailed you asking if you ever turned the red on ?
Parisi has benefitted from one red light by me long ago. In fact....that was Belle Rose in '07. Last one I've had if memory serves. I simply learned what the car wanted. People try to tell their cars what to do but until you listen to what it wants you cannot force the car to do your bidding. There must be a symbiotic relationship between car and driver for success to happen.

You and the machine must be as one.

[larz]

Oh my GOD!!! Your a philosopher too??? Larz:D

[fairmontology]

Your God has nothing to do with this, Slick. :D

[KenB]

Chris,

I wasn't aware all that went down. Although my car competes in this class, I haven't had as much time to meet everyone and be in the lanes during the racing. I don't drive my car, Derek Kernodle does. I put him in the seat because I expected my Real Street car to be done by now and wanted the same person in the seat for all the races the car would be at.

[Conrad]

Couple things here:
1. SD, no it doesn't depend, you cant get staged properly when the other guy is already fully staged, I have been there, done that, MANY times over.

2. No offense guys but I would really stop using FFW as some kind of a "ford drag racing series guidebook". I don't think their set up worked out too well....the NMRA is not going to follow in the footsteps of a series that is no longer operating. Just my .02:)

Couple things here:
1. SD, no it doesn't depend, you cant get staged properly when the other guy is already fully staged, I have been there, done that, MANY times over.

2. No offense guys but I would really stop using FFW as some kind of a "ford drag racing series guidebook". I don't think their set up worked out too well....the NMRA is not going to follow in the footsteps of a series that is no longer operating. Just my .02:)

Now .....Now ....Now lets not get carried away. FFW was the organization for many years. You don't need to have the much money to have a car to be competive. The classes were more built to bracket racers, and gave you MUCH more classes to run over the weekend. Most important it was FUN and everyone was like family. I have never herd so much whinning and complaining from YOU GUYS and im not referring to the class. I also a number of world champions came over here for years and won!!!!!!!!!The reason they are not sitll going is because Bill was done.......And do you really think that this is the organization........There are holes and problems with every organization. Im sorry to blast you but US FFW racers are and will always be like family.........

[Conrad]

Unfortunately Joe, a footbraked automatic cannot react fast enough on a Pro.500 tree.

Wheeler, sorry man, not gonna argue with you, we are gonna have to agree to disagree.

My wifes 15.13 car in MI i fooybreaked NOT DEEP on one pass .049 and thats only 6 times down the track with it. So sorry but your wrong.........I can cut a light in a golf cart. Our local track has a pitbike challange for 100.00 I cut a .011 light in the final so I KNOW I CAN!!!!!!!!!!!

[Conrad]

[QUOTE=V6 HEAT;410913]


I know how to race, I know how to Stage!

But I do find it funny that you of all people are the one pushing this subject. I was going to stay out of this, but you don't understand........

YOU are the one that was Double and Triple BULBING folks, Not the other way around! You were the one playing starting line Games with others. You are the one doing the Most complaining, and yet have had great success so far this year, What about those you double and Triple Bulbed? How have they faired? You are the one that has had confrontations over these Staging procedures. You continue to harp on being the slower car, then make it faster, this IS DRAG RACING! I saw another V6 in Milan with almost a full second quicker Dial in on his car, yet you 2 have almost the exact same modifications done to your vehicles!


Look on the other side of things Chris, How do you think this class full of people with ADHD, ( so you can read more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention-deficit_hyperactivity_disorder)
Feel Having to sit and wait for 4-5 Seconds while you take a Sunday stroll down the track? Sure it's our choice to have quicker cars, and it's your choice to have a slower car, but this is DRAG RACING. I don't go to the National Events to watch some 15-18 second cars go down the track, I go to see quick cars.


What we really need is an ET cap on this class. This class is to help show the performance that these newer S197 cars can archive while still being streetable!



Have a pleasant day.
Joe first off we are friends and im not jumping in but ive taken pictures of chris going down the track at the last 2 events(every pass). And only 2 times did it happen and they were because pete(who i am also friends with)he was in(as shown on chris's photo)and they held him up then when chris pointed they backed pete back so chris when in ..........I saw it happen and didn't have aproblem with it............Now what I think everyone is missing is that if chris is racing a 13.88 car and hes dialed in @15.27 then the faster car has an additional 1.39 to get ready ...........In drag racing that eternity................I happend to agree with chris but I WILL DO WHAT I HAVE TO DO TO GET IN AND GET IT DONE FOR ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!again I don't want to jump in or offend anyone ..............Joe and pete I love you:)

[Adam Smith]

My wifes 15.13 car in MI i fooybreaked NOT DEEP on one pass .049 and thats only 6 times down the track with it. So sorry but your wrong.........I can cut a light in a golf cart. Our local track has a pitbike challange for 100.00 I cut a .011 light in the final so I KNOW I CAN!!!!!!!!!!!


For starters if you think a .049 light is good, I would love to race you. Number 2 whats the rollout in an 8" golf cart tire compared to a 26" tall tire. Or a 12" pit bike tire?? C'mon man, let be realistic.

No I don't race in this class, because to be quite honest, its Mod Muscle all over again. I was simply saying that a brake would even the score for an auto and that deep stagers need to be prepared.

As for FFW, I tried to get into FFW 12.50 index class when it first came out years ago but Klassless wouldn't let me run my PI swapped 98 :rolleyes: Next thing you know the rules were gone and it was full of 11-12.00 cars having a brakefest at the top end.


Donut, that is the slowest Pro .400 tree ever. :D

[fairmontology]

No I don't race in this class, because to be quite honest, its Mod Muscle all over again.

Not yet but...................... :rolleyes:

[V6 HEAT]

Off Topic Question...

Good morning everyone. So I had an issue with my car while driving home from MI. Code P0191. (Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor) I was in GA only 190 miles from home and the car started to miss-fire and run rough. I stopped at an autoparts store and they checked my battery/alternator and both checked out fine. The car was nearly empty - less than a 1/4 tank. I cleared the code with my SCT Tuner and filled the tank with gas and the car ran perfectly fine.

I know most everyone here trailers their cars - but I figured I'd ask and see if anyone else has experienced this issue.

Other background - After NMCA in Bradenton I was driving home and it did the same symptoms (car was about 70 miles to empty and it was a hot day)- but the engine light never came on and i didn't have a code to check - so I assumed it may have been the coilpack and I replaced it with a performance distributors screamin-demon. I then drove to NJ - raced - and back to FL without an incident. (it was a cool weekend and I don't think the car ever got below a 1/4 tank on that trip)

So it happened in March in FL (low fuel) hot day and then again in May (low fuel) hot day. I did replace the fuel filter before NJ too.

Some people say I may need to change the fuel pump - some threads I searched said there's a TSB on the Fuel Rail Sensor - but I had my dad look up my vin # and no TSB's - some threads say under 1/4 tank, hot day - long drive - bubbles can form in gas tank and cause my issue.

Any other Ideas out there - let me know what you think - I don't want to just keep replacing everything if I don't have to.

[ArtQ]

Not sure about the 4.0 but most fuel rail pressure sensor/regulators have a vacuum line coming off of them. If the diaphram in the sensor has a leak it will send raw un-metered fuel in to the intake system and cause the running issue. If you pull the vacuum hose and smell fuel in the hose that will verify it is a bad sensor.

There is a TSB for the pump, again not sure if it applies to the 4.0. I had the issue with my GT. After steady cruise if you got on it, it would fall on it's face for a few seconds then pick back up. Installed the upgraded pump and no issue since.

Are we going for a record for most topic changes in one thread?:D

[V6 HEAT]

Not sure about the 4.0 but most fuel rail pressure sensor/regulators have a vacuum line coming off of them. If the diaphram in the sensor has a leak it will send raw un-metered fuel in to the intake system and cause the running issue. If you pull the vacuum hose and smell fuel in the hose that will verify it is a bad sensor.

There is a TSB for the pump, again not sure if it applies to the 4.0. I had the issue with my GT. After steady cruise if you got on it, it would fall on it's face for a few seconds then pick back up. Installed the upgraded pump and no issue since.

Are we going for a record for most topic changes in one thread?:D

Thanks for the input Art - and Yes - I see no need for any further threads - just this one from now on!

[Adam Smith]

Not sure about the 4.0 but most fuel rail pressure sensor/regulators have a vacuum line coming off of them. If the diaphram in the sensor has a leak it will send raw un-metered fuel in to the intake system and cause the running issue. If you pull the vacuum hose and smell fuel in the hose that will verify it is a bad sensor.

There is a TSB for the pump, again not sure if it applies to the 4.0. I had the issue with my GT. After steady cruise if you got on it, it would fall on it's face for a few seconds then pick back up. Installed the upgraded pump and no issue since.

Are we going for a record for most topic changes in one thread?:D

Well not to change the topic again, but I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance. :p

[KenB]

Chris,

That is a low fuel pressure code. I'd say there is an issue with the fuel pump when the tank is low or your sender is not accurate.

Ken

[V6 HEAT]

Chris,

That is a low fuel pressure code. I'd say there is an issue with the fuel pump when the tank is low or your sender is not accurate.

Ken

I've been keeping the tank full since MI and no issues - but my luck the car will have issues on the way to Joliet. :(

I will probably change the Fuel Pump to be safe - but i just wanted to brainstorm with you guys before I spend the money - so any other solutions - just let me know.

I can probably just keep the tank over a 1/4 and the issue may never happen again. Shoot - it drove all the way to NJ and back - and then all the way to MI and back before it happened - It was also only when it was hot (outside) and on a long drive - below a 1/4 tank about 70 miles to empty.

[Conrad]

For starters if you think a .049 light is good, I would love to race you. Number 2 whats the rollout in an 8" golf cart tire compared to a 26" tall tire. Or a 12" pit bike tire?? C'mon man, let be realistic.

No I don't race in this class, because to be quite honest, its Mod Muscle all over again. I was simply saying that a brake would even the score for an auto and that deep stagers need to be prepared.

As for FFW, I tried to get into FFW 12.50 index class when it first came out years ago but Klassless wouldn't let me run my PI swapped 98 :rolleyes: Next thing you know the rules were gone and it was full of 11-12.00 cars having a brakefest at the top end.


Donut, that is the slowest Pro .400 tree ever. :D

First i wasn't saying that a .049 was great that was like the 6th time ever down the track with that car........so please read before you comment.........AND YES I WILL RACE YOU ......$$$$$$$.........i'll even let you us your trans break ill footbreak and show you how us FFW racers suck............The 12.50 class was like 2005 when they wouldn't let in power adders 06,07,08 were all good anything goes just footbreak.............and i was just stating that there is nothing i can't cut a light in!!!!!!!!!!!!!P.S have a nice day

[KenB]

I've been keeping the tank full since MI and no issues - but my luck the car will have issues on the way to Joliet. :(

I will probably change the Fuel Pump to be safe - but i just wanted to brainstorm with you guys before I spend the money - so any other solutions - just let me know.

I can probably just keep the tank over a 1/4 and the issue may never happen again. Shoot - it drove all the way to NJ and back - and then all the way to MI and back before it happened - It was also only when it was hot (outside) and on a long drive - below a 1/4 tank about 70 miles to empty.


If it only happens when it's hot and AND low it could be a fuel boiling problem. Either way if you keep more fuel in it shouldn't be an issue.

[V6 HEAT]

If it only happens when it's hot and AND low it could be a fuel boiling problem. Either way if you keep more fuel in it shouldn't be an issue.

Yep - so far so good. Going to drive down to Gainesville this Sat for a last test - 90 mile drive in hot weather - plan to not let it get below 1/4 tank. Crossing my fingers! :)

[edtootall]

Sooooo can I run a 2 step? :D

[V6 HEAT]

Sooooo can I run a 2 step? :D

Homie don't play dat!!! Whaaaap....with a sock!!! ;)

[bob7by]

Sooooo can I run a 2 step? :D

Now that's good, I really like you for you are just too funny. Sorry if I miss read your intent but I am still smiling.:)

Have a good one. Hope things are picking up in Mi.

[edtootall]

LOL!!!

I'm the biggest smart ass you will ever meet. I just like getting everyone fired up :lol: